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I was playing a game with a guy who was playing some chaos marines. He had a squad of Khorne berzerkers or something, and half the squad had 2 CCW and the other half had 2 pistols. Whenever I killed one, he would remove one of the berzerkers with 2 ccw and say he could still fire 10 shots, because the five guys with double guns were alive, and the double ccw guy wasn't carrying a gun, so he said he hadn't lost any shots. I wasn't sure about how legal t his was, but the guy was older than me, and had been playing for a lot longer, judging by his huge CSM collection and smaller blood angels collection, and I am still a relitivly new player, so I just rolled with it. So, at one point I had killed half the squad at one point, and he still was firing 10 shots. Only when I killed 6 guys was he firing 8 shots. And he said they would make the same amount of attacks in cc, because pistols were ccw. Is this legal, or have I been cheated?

Entirely illegal.

First of all, each model has BP+CCW, so that is what they have

Secondly infantry only have permission to fire 1 weapon per shooting phase, so even if 2 BP were allowed each model could only fire 1

2 BP do, indeed, count as 2 CCW in close combat so yes, he wouldnt lose any attacks

Pistols are ccws, however he cannot fire more than one weapon with each model. An exception to this rule are MCs who are specifically allowed to per the BRB

Unless he was somehow counting the Boltguns, which with Rapid Fire would still put out two shots, yeah he was cheating as Nos said above.

Bezerkers dont have bolters....

Dang! Well, live and learn I guess.... He did look kinda shifty.. At least it wasn't a tourny or anything just a friendly, pick-up and play game. Well, maybe not so friendly, now that I know he was cheating...

nosferatu1001 wrote:Bezerkers dont have bolters....

Yes...yes. I somehow read Zerkers and thought CSM.

To OP: Yeah, one of those live and learn things. In the future, even in friendly games, don't be afraid to ask your opponent to show you the rule/ability/whatever that is in question that allows them to do whatever they're trying to do. Just because people have quite a collection, or are a veteran player doesn't mean they are always 100% on the rules all the time.

Point him to the actual rules and he'll stop cheating

Firstly, Berzerkers do not have access to two bolt pistols or CCWs. C:CSM, p98.

Secondly, even if they did have two ranged weapons (like some models do, such as Chaos Space Marines or even regular Space Marine Tacticals!), they would not be permitted to fire more than one weapon per turn. Rulebook, p15.

I've modeled a few marines with two pistols (looks cool yo!) but is it always understood that it "counts as" a CCW?BP and he gets on 12 inch shot.

But yea, otherwise cheating if you pull what he pulled.

Cheexsta wrote:Point him to the actual rules and he'll stop cheating

That too, or have him show you where he can do it and watch him fail.

Cheexsta wrote:
Firstly, Berzerkers do not have access to two bolt pistols or CCWs. C:CSM, p98.

Secondly, even if they did have two ranged weapons (like some models do, such as Chaos Space Marines or even regular Space Marine Tacticals!), they would not be permitted to fire more than one weapon per turn. Rulebook, p15.

SoB Seraphim come to mind as an exception to that rule per their own special rules. They actually are armed with two Bolt Pistols, which per their rule counts as twin-linked for shooting and as having two CCWs in assault C:WH, pg35. Granted they don't really get to shoot with both Bolt Pistols, but they look really cool doing it.

Applicable to the OP, as with most things in life there are exceptions to the rules, but just make sure if your opponent actually does have one of those exceptions, for them to show it to you.

quick question......if you were to slap to pistols of the same type on a model, rules allowing, then would that make it a twin-linked pistol? like if a commisar had 2 bolt pistols?...(i'm just trying to quell curiosity)

krato123 wrote:quick question......if you were to slap two pistols of the same type on a model, rules allowing, then would that make it a twin-linked pistol? like if a commisar had 2 bolt pistols?...(i'm just trying to quell curiosity)

No

A twin linked weapon is one that allows you to re'roll misses.

krato123 wrote:if you were to slap to pistols of the same type on a model, rules allowing, then would that make it a twin-linked pistol?

Only if the model has a rule that says so. People that think different usually remember the previous Tyranid codex having such a rule for any duplicate guns and assume it is a general rule.

ok....thanx for the clearing up.

Eldar DA exarchs can have 2 shuriken catapults, and can shoot both. Can't think of any others though.

They dont "shoot both" - they have a single Assault 4 weapon, which fluffwise is two weapons.

He still only fires one weapon

nosferatu1001 wrote:They dont "shoot both" - they have a single Assault 4 weapon, which fluffwise is two weapons.

He still only fires one weapon

This is an important clarification, since Bladestorm adds 1 shot per weapon. If they were actually two guns (in rules space, not fluff space), you'd get 2 bonus shots. But, it is a single Assault 4 gun, so you only get 1 bonus shot.

Ma55ter_fett wrote:I've modeled a few marines with two pistols (looks cool yo!) but is it always understood that it "counts as" a CCW?BP and he gets on 12 inch shot.

But yea, otherwise cheating if you pull what he pulled.

Same. It does look good. You just have to make sure your opponent knows that you're not modellign for advantage like the OPs douche opponent was.