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Hey Dakka.

So I've started playing IG more often recently, and I noticed an odd thing. Now, I don't plan on using Penal Legionnaires, but this is the kind of thing I like to know, just in case it comes up.

First Rank, Fire! Second Rank, Fire! very clearly states that "If the enemy is up to 12" away, models firing lasguns fire three shots, rather than just two. If the unit did not move in its Movement phase they fire two shots with their lasguns at an enemy up to 24" away, instead of just one."

On the other hand, if you roll a 1-2 for your Desperadoes roll for Penal Legionnaires, their lasguns become Assault 2, rather than Rapid Fire, and they fire two shots at up to 24" regardless of whether or not they moved in their Movement phase.

How do these two special rules interact, if at all?

My first reaction is, "they don't." FRFSRF specifically allows two shots at 24" with no movement in the Movement phase, it does not at any point allow just plain extra shots... so if a Penal Legionnaire squad was issued First Rank, Second Rank, the ones 12.000001-24" away would do nothing they wouldn't already do.

But I wanted to get Dakka's opinion in case I missed something.

Thanks.

My question is, can penal legionnaires even receive orders from a Junior/Senior officer?

tetrisphreak wrote:My question is, can penal legionnaires even receive orders from a Junior/Senior officer?

Why wouldn't they be able to? I don't see any special rules keeping them from receiving orders, or keeping a Company/Platoon Commander from issuing orders to them.

Am I missing something here, as well?

Like This:

Q. How does ‘First Rank Fire, Second Rank Fire’
interact with Penal Legionnaires with the
Gunslingers ability?
A. Penal Legionnaires with the Gunslingers ability
who are then ordered to ‘First Rank Fire! Second
Rank Fire!’ get to fire three shots if the target is
up to 12" away. There is no bonus if they are
more than 12" – the Legionnaires are good, but
not that good.

It makes sense when you think about it; Legionaires are still using Lasguns; they just use them in a different manner to normal guardsmen, the FAQ states to just do exactly what FRFSRF says to do with them.

You mean the FAQ actually agrees with RAW?

Mind = blown.

But thank you for confirming my suspicions. Good to know I don't miss things always sometimes.

Aww, that's disappointing.... and illogical.
"...good but not that good" seems irrelevant. If normal troops get (effectively) +1 shot to their normal rules, and Penal Legionaires get +1 at short range, why not the +1 shot at long range that a normal squad would get?

Obviously that could only ever have been a RAI argument - I agree with your initial thoughts in a RAW sense. And now the FAQ answers it specifically.


BTW I love your army status sig, SaintHazard - it's remenicent of the state of my own collections (5% painted, 10% painted, lol)

Yes, I'm unbelievably lazy re: painting. At this point I've totally come to terms with it.

OT, from a fluff standpoint First Rank Second Rank represents the squad lining up in a disciplined firing line and quickly and efficiently popping off shots, giving them (effectively) one more shot at each range than they'd normally get. As justification (again, from a fluff standpoint rather than a rules standpoint) for Penal Legionnaires not getting this bonus at 24", it makes perfect sense to me that they would not in fact be as disciplined, quick, and efficient as a squad of volunteers.