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I did some searching and can't find a suitable answer, but I imagine this should be a quick one

A Valkyrie becomes immobilized while hovering above a squad of <whatevers>. Do you:
a) Keep it on the base but say it's immobilized
b) Take it off of the base and lay it on top of the squad below (giving them some newfound cover, and assuming that they fit ofc)
c) Remove it from the board

The last time this came up we played using b), but all of a sudden an entire squad of vets were blocked from my LoS. The only wording I have found (at work, don't have the source) is that you remove the flying base *if able*. IG mans are tiny, so we were totally able to remove the base and set it back down

Thoughts on this?

p 71. Tells you that an immobilised skimmer immediately crashes and to remove it from its base if possible.

That's all I got.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually I do have something:

"Skimmers can move over friendly and enemy models, but they cannot end their move on top of either."

So the Valkyrie couldn't have been hovering over <whatever> in the first place.

I'd leave it on the base and say it's immobilized in mid-air under the circumstances. Be the same if the base was glued in anyhow.

kmdl1066 wrote:p 71. Tells you that an immobilised skimmer immediately crashes and to remove it from its base if possible.

Yep.

kmdl1066 wrote:Actually I do have something:

"Skimmers can move over friendly and enemy models, but they cannot end their move on top of either."

So the Valkyrie couldn't have been hovering over <whatever> in the first place.

Yeah, it could, because the other unit could move under THEM. That's what gets us into this trouble.

I believe the best resolution is to try taking it off the stand, and see if it can land right where it's supposed to without moving the other models. If it CAN (they fit under the wings or something), great, just put it down. If it CAN'T go down without crushing/supporting its weight on other models, read this as "if unable to remove the flying stand". That would seem to be the easiest resolution that involves the least amount of making up rules or moving models around who aren't supposed to be moving.

Of course, if you move a squad under a skimmer and then it gets Wrecked, we're screwed again.

Dammit, you've broken the rules again.

I don't think there is a clear answer from RAW.

I would either leave it on the flying base, or put it down on the ground and move the figures out from underneath, whichever the players involved feel most appropriate.

It's only the "wrecked" result that is difficult - and, again, you only remove the base if you can. So it could be a rweck whose engines are still workng.

Quite amusingly its a dangerous terrain wreck, so its engines are working AND its on fire....

Kilkrazy wrote:Dammit, you've broken the rules again.

I don't think there is a clear answer from RAW.

I would either leave it on the flying base, or put it down on the ground and move the figures out from underneath, whichever the players involved feel most appropriate.

Actually, G.W. broke the rules when they designed a skimmer on a 6 inch stand.

You can move models under a lot of skimmers anyway - you measure to the base for infantry models, so it is often very easy for even an enemy model to be more than 1" away from the hull of a skimmer.

Thanks for the perspectives! Really, it didn't end up mattering much but given that it was still my shooting phase and all of a sudden the Vets squad had gained *very substantial* cover I was curious how others would play it. Fluff-wise I enjoyed the mental picture of a squad of vets huddling together after a Valk almost crushed them! Silly mans

Go ahead and lock this thread.

So do skimmers stay on their bases after moving? I always assumed you had to land it after you moved with it. How else would my Banshees get onto the ground , tuck and roll?

Skimmers stay on their bases, as you have no permission to remove them except for the "if possible" part of immobilised results.

Whoa I smell cheese! So I can stick my guys under it????

kmdl1066 wrote:p 71. Tells you that an immobilised skimmer immediately crashes and to remove it from its base if possible.

That's all I got.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually I do have something:

"Skimmers can move over friendly and enemy models, but they cannot end their move on top of either."

So the Valkyrie couldn't have been hovering over <whatever> in the first place.

Actually, it only crashes immediately if it moved flat out in its last turn. Other than that, the immobilised result is treated as a normal immobilised result.

DakkaDakka wrote:

Eyesedragon wrote:Whoa I smell cheese! So I can stick my guys under it????

The skimmer can't end its move over other models, but other models can end their move under it, if they fit. This doesn't really give you any game benefits. Remember that you can't change the skimmer's base height during the game (unless it's immobilized).

Eyesedragon wrote:So do skimmers stay on their bases after moving? I always assumed you had to land it after you moved with it.

What would be the point of the skimmer having a base if you only put it on while the skimmer is moving?

You do have to 'land' the skimmer after moving. That just means putting it down on the table, rather than claiming it is hovering over the board... not that you take the base off each time you complete your movement.

I asked this same question (abeit a little differently) not so long ago.

It involved a Stormraven that got wrecked with a squad under it.

For the purposes of Immobilized I would go with you have to move the models under it "the minimum distance" so that they are no longer under it when you remove it from the base. This would follow the rules as no two models can occupy the same game space. Now as to which way they move forward, backward, left, right, etc that would have to be a house rule or use a scatter die.

During my tournament, it was a big GT called the St. Valentines Day Massacre, the TO ruled that you keep the skimmer on the base. I personally like the above way of doing it, but hey the TO is always right.

For a wreck, however, it has been ruled not only by my FLGS but also Dakka (when I asked) that you place the squad on the wreck and now they get cover.

This is why GW REALLY needs to come out with a new rulebook that explains these eventualities involving the new skimmer bases. I guess we'll have to wait for 6th edition.

I'd say models underneath take an initiative check, those that pass manage to move out of the way, those that fail are hit by the falling vehicle and take an automatic wound with armour saves allowed (passing represents getting a glancing blow from part of it, whilst failing means being squished). Those that survive are placed in coherency a maximum of 1" away from the vehicle hull.

Or you could go with one of the other suitable answers in the thread (but who'd want to do that?)

Just leaving the skimmer on its base satisfies the rules, and doesn't require making up a house rule to cover the situation.

Galador wrote:

kmdl1066 wrote:p 71. Tells you that an immobilised skimmer immediately crashes and to remove it from its base if possible.

Actually, it only crashes immediately if it moved flat out in its last turn. Other than that, the immobilised result is treated as a normal immobilised result.

It doesn't crash unless it moved flat out, but you do have to remove the base. "If a skimmer is immobilised or wrecked, its base is removed, if possible."

'...if possible' being the key.

Since there are models underneath it, and no rules allowing them to be moved or the skimmer to be placed elsewhere instead, removing the base is not possible... so it stays on and the skimmer simply stays where it is.

What would happen once the models are moved out? Would you remove the base then (assuming you physically could) and set it down? Or would you keep it up?

I think insaniak's suggestion is excellent. I would also think that once you decided that it was not possible to remove the model it would have to stay on the base. After all, if it were not physically possible to remove the base, the skimmer would remain on the base for the rest of the game.

Avatar 720 wrote:What would happen once the models are moved out? Would you remove the base then (assuming you physically could) and set it down? Or would you keep it up?

The effects of vehicle damage are applied when the damage occurs. There is no rule that would require you to go back and retroactively apply an effect later on. So the base would stay on.

In the previous thread, I was on the "put it down and move the models as little as possible" side, but I've changed my mind and now agree that if models underneath are actually in the way (as opposed to fitting neatly under the wings), it's better to leave the stand on.