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Ok we've a good idea whats in the GK book, and an even better idea in the next few days.

As a ardent herald of the dark gods, with a pretty good daemon track record, the question is, how do we beat GK's?

My personal favourite unit I think will be Flamers, you an DS far away, jump in, and 3 4+ flame templates are always good against anything with poor invulnerable saves, yes they'll die, but points back most likely.

Any other thoughts?

If PAGK have warp quake as they do in the scandex, it'll be absolutely impossible, with the PAGK able to force the Daemons to mishap with every single unit, essentially cutting your army down to one third, with the GK player actually placing them.

Daemons will be unplayable.

I salute your positivity!

yes they will be difficult but this is about solutions not problems!

There might be the possibility that Daemons get an additional special rule when facing GKs in much the same way that they did in the old Daemonhunters codex.

Why not wait for the actual codex to come out before we start these types of threads?

L. Wrex

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:Why not wait for the actual codex to come out before we start these types of threads?

This. Time spent in recon is seldom wasted.

flamers, daemonettes, dance models away so they can be isolated and destroyed, ect.

IMHO its not as uphill as it was before, with GK's hitting everything with a hail of S6 attacks before they got to swing due to assaulting through cover.

The first question that has to be asked and answered is 'what will GK players be taking?'.

If I want to build a GK list to specifically bone over Daemons, I can do it, and I don't care what your selections are or how good a player you are, you simply cannot win through my blanket 'no deep strike' coverage of the table. The few models that do get through will promptly be shot to death by S5 storm bolters and I win by dint of outnumbering you 3:1 and deciding where your army deploys.

However, if the anti-daemon build looks nothing like the anti-Space Wolf/IG/BA/DE build, then that's a totally different kettle of fish.

What about how your codex says deamons get a 2++ against nemisis force weapons and every grey knight is armed with a nemisis force weapon of some fashion?

Thats only a deamonic gift.


and i belive it only works against activated force weapons.

sourclams wrote:The first question that has to be asked and answered is 'what will GK players be taking?'.

If I want to build a GK list to specifically bone over Daemons, I can do it, and I don't care what your selections are or how good a player you are, you simply cannot win through my blanket 'no deep strike' coverage of the table. The few models that do get through will promptly be shot to death by S5 storm bolters and I win by dint of outnumbering you 3:1 and deciding where your army deploys.

However, if the anti-daemon build looks nothing like the anti-Space Wolf/IG/BA/DE build, then that's a totally different kettle of fish.

Not to mention that servo skulls only cost 5 points each. Even if it doesn't fit against all the other builds, 15 points to block off almost half the table is damn good.

tldr wrote:What about how your codex says deamons get a 2++ against nemisis force weapons and every grey knight is armed with a nemisis force weapon of some fashion?

Only works on some of the higher up daemons of Khorne, and only against activated force weapons, as Grey Templar said.

Fafnir wrote:
Not to mention that servo skulls only cost 5 points each. Even if it doesn't fit against all the other builds, 15 points to block off almost half the table is damn good.

Okay, jeezus, tell me who can take servo skulls as wargear?

THIS, in my opinion, is the most broken thing about the codex thus far. DK is T6 5++, that's not a big deal. Paladins don't have EW with 5++, not a big deal. Blocking off a 2' chunk of table with a 5 pt wargear option to any DoA, Drop Pod Assault, Daemonic Incursion, or Meltacide unit? That's a big deal, potentially altering entire army matchups.

How can you play pure Dantewing in good faith knowing that the FotM army is a hard counter if it takes 10 pts of wargear? DPA wasn't that amazing before, but now it's just stupid.

What do Servo skulls do?

Remember:

Old Grey Knight: 2 Str 6 Attacks
New Grey Knight: 1 Str 4 Power Weapon Attack

Which one is deadlier to Demons?

The one that causes auto-mishaps and doesn't take one part of the statline out of context?

sourclams wrote:

Fafnir wrote:
Not to mention that servo skulls only cost 5 points each. Even if it doesn't fit against all the other builds, 15 points to block off almost half the table is damn good.

Okay, jeezus, tell me who can take servo skulls as wargear?

THIS, in my opinion, is the most broken thing about the codex thus far. DK is T6 5++, that's not a big deal. Paladins don't have EW with 5++, not a big deal. Blocking off a 2' chunk of table with a 5 pt wargear option to any DoA, Drop Pod Assault, Daemonic Incursion, or Meltacide unit? That's a big deal, potentially altering entire army matchups.

How can you play pure Dantewing in good faith knowing that the FotM army is a hard counter if it takes 10 pts of wargear? DPA wasn't that amazing before, but now it's just stupid.

Grand Masters, Brother Captains, Librarians, Inquisitors (although they're an exception, Inquisitors get them for 3 points each).

And each model can take up to 3 each.

Of course, that's based on the scandex. May have been changed for the final release.

Okay, jeezus, tell me who can take servo skulls as wargear?

In the scandex all the three types of 25 point HQ choice Inquisitors can take three servo skulls each for 3 points a pop. I'd guess nothing else changed except they upped the points cost to 5 per servo skull. So, for 40 points you get 3 servo skulls deployed. I can't think of any other useful role for the 40p Inquisitor except if you're taking him in addition to Coteaz two units of Servitors might be fun as long as they got cover saves. 20 multi-meltas or plasma cannons can't be a bad thing most of the time.

EDIT: Yeah, seems like the GK heroes get them too.

That really might help to bring Land Raiders back into vogue for GK.

It's a big problem when on T1/2 100 pt units fall out of the sky with enough firepower to melt them. Bring in blanket immunity to that, and suddenly you don't have a problem anymore.

That really might help to bring Land Raiders back into vogue for GK.

For that to happen I would've liked to see the SW/BA trend continue and the GK to have a psychic power like Shield of Sanguinius. Sigh... So much squandered potential. You remember the rumours of GK having a psychic power that adds +2 armour to one facing of the caster's choosing? That would've been nice. Might've actually brought Stormravens into the game, but alas, GW doesn't want to sell those kits.

i think LRs would be more useful if Terminators could take them as DTs.

Gks are still getting screwed in the DT department.

I think that was actually somewhat intelligent on Ward's part. DT for GKTs would have made a 1st turn charge possible on 1-3 LR squads with GKGM special abilities.

DT for GKTs would have made a 1st turn charge possible on 1-3 LR squads with GKGM special abilities.

Well, you can still get first turn charges with three Dreadknights or huge squads of teleporting PAGK (Scout 30", move 12", assault 6"), while Mordrak and his Terminators are waiting 1" away to charge next turn. I sincerely doubt Matt Ward intentionally all of a sudden restrained himself on behalf of the Land Raiders He doesn't think like normal people. A large number of armies will have to always full reserve against scouting teleporters and a large number of those will be crippled in doing so.

You also have to remember that GK vehicles get the psychic power "extra armor (I know it's something along the lines of fortitude)", sure, it can fail, but it is FREE.

and it isn't just extra armor.

it's "Ignores Stunned and Shaken"

Oh crap, I never noticed that, I rarely use METAL BAWKSES!~!, but this makes the psychic power as smidgen more risky, but A LOT better.

more Risky?

Gk seem pretty good but the scandex could be wrong servo skulls could be changed to 6'' and if i were demons flamers seems good but you are gonna get crushed aganist a min max army but if you inflitrate your stuff ill just use the rhino wall have fun you have to do aganist that.

What do the Servo Skulls do that everyone is so worked up about?

rovian wrote:Gk seem pretty good but the scandex could be wrong servo skulls could be changed to 6'' and if i were demons flamers seems good but you are gonna get crushed aganist a min max army but if you inflitrate your stuff ill just use the rhino wall have fun you have to do aganist that.

That sounds more reasonable. A 6" Deep Striking null-zone would be more worth 5pts, although it's also kinda useless at the same time. It would only see any use if there were a bunch of servo-skulls across the table, and even then the enemy is going to try to avoid them, so it would only work if they scattered into the null-zone. However, if they land outside of it, there is nothing that won't be able to shoot the character with the servo skull.