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Aha?

sorry, pc error during posting.

I played against the shock attack gun and the user rolled 2 5's and I wanted to know if the model under the center of the template is the one that must take the wound or can it be given to another model in the squad.

That's actually a good question.

The wording is "Only the model under the template hole is hit, [...]" which kind of could imply that a resulting wound would have to be distributed to that model directly. Otherwise, they just could have said "The unit suffers only one hit, [...]", you know?

But I guess its not perfectly clear, hoping for more posts.

No real issue; The model under the Marker-hole is hit; that means the Unit is Hit, and the opposing player gets to allocate the wound as he/she sees fit.

Unless a Weapon or special rule specifies that "only Model X(model X being the model that meets whatever criteria of the weapon/rule) is hit and takes the wound" then the whole squad takes the wound(s) determined by the criteria

It would help if GW had any kind of consistency on this.

The wording on the Particle whip in the necron codex is specific that the model under the central hole takes an AP1 hit, but they FAQ'd it as being anyone in the unit, but at the same time the Jaws only affects the specific models it hits...

I'd say that as there isn't an FAQ specifically clarifying it the model under the central hole is the one hit. There is not a getout saying you can allocate as you please in the codex or the FAQ.

Jaws; while being a PSA, is not a Weapon.

BIG difference:

Jaws hits models and does not cause wounds,

The particle Whip is a Weapon that hits units and wounds in the normal sense.

Are there any other weapons out there that allow you to snipe the particular models hit? I'm sure there probably are, but i only have the ork and necron codexes to hand

Any ideas gents?

The vindicare can snipe, but that's a special ability of the model, not the gun.

Ascalam wrote:It would help if GW had any kind of consistency on this.

The wording on the Particle whip in the necron codex is specific that the model under the central hole takes an AP1 hit, but they FAQ'd it as being anyone in the unit, but at the same time the Jaws only affects the specific models it hits...

I'd say that as there isn't an FAQ specifically clarifying it the model under the central hole is the one hit. There is not a getout saying you can allocate as you please in the codex or the FAQ.

Ya, but the particle whip was FAQ'd because the wound allocation rules changed. As far as I know, the SAG was written for 5th edition. And if that being the case, I'd have to say the wording of this situation is quite specific and very literal. You can't/shouldn't switch the words model and unit interchangeably when trying to view RAI unless you're trying to understand archaic rules from previous versions that may not exactly apply to the newest version.

The FAQ is for 5th. I'm ok with it's ruling. It disallows sniping specific models. My objection on consistency is that you can snipe specific models with stuff like JOTWW and i think Blood Lance, but not with weapons. It's the ability to snipe, not the effect type, that I consider inconsistent.

Being a psychic power or a weapon shouldn't make a difference. (especially since JOTWW is practically guaranteed to come off, autohits, and unless you are playing a high I army is a near guaranteed kill, no save...)

My opinion would be that you shouldn't be able to pick specific models out of a unit, especially with something that can hit more than one model at a time. Whether it causes wounds or just removes you from play it still allows you to disregard the usual wound allocation system.

The Ork codex is 4th edition, not fifth, though very late 4th. The way it's worded i'd agree that it could snipe a specific target (assuming the ork can actually hit it and not have something odd happen- a powerful balancing factor ) , but i'm not fond of instagib/specific model sniping effects. Personal taste, not RAW argument, and i'm not overly interested in arguing it.

Thanks for the points of reference with other weapons/abilities of this kind. We did end of playing where he wounded the model that was under the hole and I was trying to figure out if that was the way to go if it came up again.

Ascalam wrote:The FAQ is for 5th. I'm ok with it's ruling. It disallows sniping specific models. My objection on consistency is that you can snipe specific models with stuff like JOTWW and i think Blood Lance, but not with weapons. It's the ability to snipe, not the effect type, that I consider inconsistent.

Being a psychic power or a weapon shouldn't make a difference. (especially since JOTWW is practically guaranteed to come off, autohits, and unless you are playing a high I army is a near guaranteed kill, no save...)

My opinion would be that you shouldn't be able to pick specific models out of a unit, especially with something that can hit more than one model at a time. Whether it causes wounds or just removes you from play it still allows you to disregard the usual wound allocation system.

The Ork codex is 4th edition, not fifth, though very late 4th. The way it's worded i'd agree that it could snipe a specific target (assuming the ork can actually hit it and not have something odd happen- a powerful balancing factor ) , but i'm not fond of instagib/specific model sniping effects. Personal taste, not RAW argument, and i'm not overly interested in arguing it.

The piece of the puzzle you seem to be missing are the casualty removal rules in the rulebook. They allow (command) players to allocate wounds to any member of the unit. So if a weapon inflicts wounds, then the casualty rules allow you to allocate those wounds. This even applies to Blast and Template weapons despite the fact that both these weapon types 'hit' the models under the blast/template.

Jaws of the World Wolf does not inflict wounds, so there is nothing to be allocated, THAT is the difference, not that Jaws of the World wolf is a psychic power (and for the record, blood lance does not hit specific models, it hits units that the line crosses over).

So the asnwer to the main question in this thread is: yes, the one S10 wound inflicted by a '5,5' SAG can be allocated because it is just a single S10 hit inflicted by a blast weapon, so it follows all the normal rules for casualty removal, including wound allocation. There is no difference between the model being 'hit' by a '5,5' result and the normal models being 'hit' by any blast weapon that is over them. When it comes to wound allocation, those wounds still get allocated by the player controlling the unit.

This is the 5,6 result Bzzap btw. 5,5 is "Zoink" the teleport.

Ascalam wrote:The FAQ is for 5th. I'm ok with it's ruling. It disallows sniping specific models. My objection on consistency is that you can snipe specific models with stuff like JOTWW and i think Blood Lance, but not with weapons. It's the ability to snipe, not the effect type, that I consider inconsistent.

Being a psychic power or a weapon shouldn't make a difference. (especially since JOTWW is practically guaranteed to come off, autohits, and unless you are playing a high I army is a near guaranteed kill, no save...)

My opinion would be that you shouldn't be able to pick specific models out of a unit, especially with something that can hit more than one model at a time. Whether it causes wounds or just removes you from play it still allows you to disregard the usual wound allocation system.

The Ork codex is 4th edition, not fifth, though very late 4th. The way it's worded i'd agree that it could snipe a specific target (assuming the ork can actually hit it and not have something odd happen- a powerful balancing factor ) , but i'm not fond of instagib/specific model sniping effects. Personal taste, not RAW argument, and i'm not overly interested in arguing it.

Ah, then if it's 4th edition writing (I thought oks got an update?) then the receiver certainly can allocate to any other model in the unit.