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L: 315
Grey Seer
Talisman of Preservation, Skalm

H: 160
Chieftain BSB
Enchanted Shield, Dragonhelm, Ironcurse Icon, Sword of Might

Engineer
Doomrocket

C: 600
2x 30 Clanrats
Standard, Musician, Shields, Rattling Gun

2x 48 Slaves
Musician

S: 735
6 Jezzails

2x 7 Gutter Runners
Slings, Poison

30 Plague Monks
Musician, Standard Bearer with Banner of Elemental Flame

8 Censor Bearers

R: 580
2x Warp Lightning Cannon

Doomwheel

Hell Pit Abomination
Spikes

Which gives me ten points to play with, or more if things are dropped. Halp?

Notes on various choices:

The rattling guns and jezzails are aesthetic choices. They're not going anywhere. Beyond that, I'm not really that attached to anything.

Couple points:

Any reason for the Monk hammer block without furnace?
- Just the models you have or specific tactical reason?
- Could you field a different hammer such as RatOgres?


You're fairly Rare-heavy; 2 cannons, 1 doomwheel, 1 HPA- are you trying to stick a lot of toys in?
- I feel you might be better served having another RNF Clanrat unit with a ratling gun instead of putting a ton of points into your special/rares.


Just a few thoughts of mine, but I play a bit more infantry saturated.

In_Theory wrote:Couple points:

Any reason for the Monk hammer block without furnace?
- Just the models you have or specific tactical reason?

The first. I could probably get a furnace built and painted by the tournament, but I already have the monks...

In_Theory wrote:- Could you field a different hammer such as RatOgres?

I could, but I haven't had a chance to testdrive the monks yet, and for the points it seems like I'd get a lot more attacks/wounds out of the monks than out of the rat ogres, who I haven't had stellar results with. Mostly due to my not deploying them correctly, I'll admit. You'd recommend RO over an equivalent amount of furnaceless PMs?

In_Theory wrote:You're fairly Rare-heavy; 2 cannons, 1 doomwheel, 1 HPA- are you trying to stick a lot of toys in?

In_Theory wrote:- I feel you might be better served having another RNF Clanrat unit with a ratling gun instead of putting a ton of points into your special/rares.

I'd probably drop the WLC were I to take out one of my toys. What would you suggest?

Can't have both the Dragonhelm and the Enchanted Shield on the BSB, they're both magic armor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
More usefully, rare heavy isn't a bad thing with Skaven. If you have to drop any of them, I'd drop the Doomwheel. Much as I love the two I have, I get lots more destruction out of a WLC than I do a wheel. You do have enough magic attacks in your army that you don't really need the spikes on the Hellpit, but admittedly I still run mine with spikes so .. meh.

While another batch of Clan Rats wouldn't be a bad thing, even dropping the Doomwheel I think you'd still be a tad short.

WARBOSS TZOO wrote:
The first. I could probably get a furnace built and painted by the tournament, but I already have the monks...

I could, but I haven't had a chance to testdrive the monks yet, and for the points it seems like I'd get a lot more attacks/wounds out of the monks than out of the rat ogres, who I haven't had stellar results with. Mostly due to my not deploying them correctly, I'll admit. You'd recommend RO over an equivalent amount of furnaceless PMs?



I'd probably drop the WLC were I to take out one of my toys. What would you suggest?

1. I recommend a furnace as it will help a lot with the higher T opponents your monks might get stuck in with.
This is partially the reason I recommended ogres-- but to each his own and monks are still good. Just high T opponents such as other ogres or each dwarfs with give the monks' S3 a work-out.
RatOgres do tend to be arrow magnets, and don't have the ablative wounds of the monk block, so it's really down to personal preference and your local metagame.



2. As said, I'd actually drop the Doomwheel instead of the second WLC. The doomwheel is far more random and has a greater chance on zapping or crashing into your own units- and has a high chance on not making its points back.

I recommended another 30-block of clanrats with a ratling gun or WFT instead. Gives you more rats on the field and another small warmachine, but also may not suit you personally. If you don't want to run another block, I suggest more gutter runners, poison wind globadiers, or another unit of 5-8 censer bearers.
These small skirmisher units can hunt lone monsters/warmachines/characters and get off flank charges when needed.


I only say rare heavy is a bad thing when a large points investment is tied into 4 single models, 1 of which is fairly unreliable and 2 of which could outright explode on turn 1 if you're unlucky... which would remove not only a large investment, but also a large chunk of anti high-T targets.

A few comments:

- this doesn't feel particularly "Skryre" heavy. You've got jezzails, one weapon team, and a Wheel. The cannons barely count; they're almost must-haves.

- 8 Censer Bearers won't be enough to do damage to any given target, but they'll work if you can afford to chose their opponent (they probably won't survive to see a second battle) carefully.

- Not many models, true. But if this sort of thing works for you, go for it. I usually try to field 4 big blocks.

- Rat Ogres and Monks each have a big advantage over your other close-combat units. The advantage Rat Ogres have (high S) is more useful than that of the Monks (lots of attacks), so they're more specialized. That said, Rat Ogres don't do much beyond attack at S5. Monks can offer some steady CR, strip ranks (reliably), and, if push comes to shove, be steadfast. So the Monks are very focused in what they're good at, but more of a catch-all in the thing's they're okay at. Rat Ogres are more versatile in their talents, but aren't useful for much else.

- cannons are good, but can give up their (admittedly few) points relatively easily. The Wheel and A-bomb are harder, but, of course, much more expensive. You're call, I'd say.

Other than that, I never run my BSB without a decent Ward save (5+ or better), and usually prefer two casters.

streamdragon wrote:Can't have both the Dragonhelm and the Enchanted Shield on the BSB, they're both magic armor.

Really?

...Bollocks. I knew getting a 2+ armour save for 20 points was too good.

streamdragon wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:
More usefully, rare heavy isn't a bad thing with Skaven. If you have to drop any of them, I'd drop the Doomwheel. Much as I love the two I have, I get lots more destruction out of a WLC than I do a wheel. You do have enough magic attacks in your army that you don't really need the spikes on the Hellpit, but admittedly I still run mine with spikes so .. meh.

It's got spikes more for the 6+ save against magic than for eating ghosts, but eating ghosts is also awesome.

streamdragon wrote:While another batch of Clan Rats wouldn't be a bad thing, even dropping the Doomwheel I think you'd still be a tad short.

Sorry, do you mean short on hitting power?

In_Theory wrote:1. I recommend a furnace as it will help a lot with the higher T opponents your monks might get stuck in with.
This is partially the reason I recommended ogres-- but to each his own and monks are still good. Just high T opponents such as other ogres or each dwarfs with give the monks' S3 a work-out.
RatOgres do tend to be arrow magnets, and don't have the ablative wounds of the monk block, so it's really down to personal preference and your local metagame.

There isn't a lot of artillery in my meta, which is why I'm not running the storm banner. Hmmm... I'll think about giving the ROs another try.

In_Theory wrote:2. As said, I'd actually drop the Doomwheel instead of the second WLC. The doomwheel is far more random and has a greater chance on zapping or crashing into your own units- and has a high chance on not making its points back.

I recommended another 30-block of clanrats with a ratling gun or WFT instead. Gives you more rats on the field and another small warmachine, but also may not suit you personally. If you don't want to run another block, I suggest more gutter runners, poison wind globadiers, or another unit of 5-8 censer bearers.
These small skirmisher units can hunt lone monsters/warmachines/characters and get off flank charges when needed.

Maybe I've just been lucky with the doomwheel, but I've...

Actually, now that I think about it, it tends to run off the board or blow up my own units more than it does anything to the enemy. Ah well, that's Skaven for you.

In_Theory wrote:I only say rare heavy is a bad thing when a large points investment is tied into 4 single models, 1 of which is fairly unreliable and 2 of which could outright explode on turn 1 if you're unlucky... which would remove not only a large investment, but also a large chunk of anti high-T targets.

Yeah, this is true. I'll crunch the numbers again.

Warpsolution wrote:A few comments:

- this doesn't feel particularly "Skryre" heavy. You've got jezzails, two weapon team, and a Wheel. The cannons barely count; they're almost must-haves.

Granted. If I had the models I'd field Globadiers, but they're just so expensive. D: If I'm not using the monks, I might see if I can do a quick and dirty conversion.

Warpsolution wrote:- 8 Censer Bearers won't be enough to do damage to any given target, but they'll work if you can afford to chose their opponent (they probably won't survive to see a second battle) carefully.

I hadn't really thought about their fragility, I have to say.

Warpsolution wrote:- Not many models, true. But if this sort of thing works for you, go for it. I usually try to field 4 big blocks.

- Rat Ogres and Monks each have a big advantage over your other close-combat units. The advantage Rat Ogres have (high S) is more useful than that of the Monks (lots of attacks), so they're more specialized. That said, Rat Ogres don't do much beyond attack at S5. Monks can offer some steady CR, strip ranks (reliably), and, if push comes to shove, be steadfast. So the Monks are very focused in what they're good at, but more of a catch-all in the thing's they're okay at. Rat Ogres are more versatile in their talents, but aren't useful for much else.

- cannons are good, but can give up their (admittedly few) points relatively easily. The Wheel and A-bomb are harder, but, of course, much more expensive. You're call, I'd say.

Other than that, I never run my BSB without a decent Ward save (5+ or better), and usually prefer two casters.

All interesting reading.

Alright, submitted the army list to the TO. Obviously I can't change it now, but any guesses on what's going to be useful/dead weight are all welcome!

L: 315
Grey Seer
Talisman of Preservation, Skalm
315

H: 160
Chieftain BSB
Talisman of Endurance, Sword of Might, Shield.
122

Engineer
Doomrocket
45

C: 601.5

30 Clanrats w/Shields
Standard, Musician, Rattling Gun.
202

30 Clanrats w/Shields
Standard, Musician, Rattling Gun.
202

29 Clanrats w/Shields
Standard, Musician, Rattling Gun.
197.5

S: 886

6 Jezzails 120

7 Gutter Runners w/ Slings, Poison 126

7 Gutter Runners w/ Slings, Poison 126

30 Plague Monks
Musician, Standard Bearer with Banner of Elemental Flame.
235

6 Rat Ogres
3 Pack Masters
Master Rat Ogre
279

R: 430
Warp Lightning Cannon 90

Warp Lightning Cannon 90

Hell Pit Abomination, Spikes
250