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First off thank you everyone who has helped me in my previous Eldar thread. This list has changed quite a bit from the last one cutting off a lot of "fat" I thought was needed but after much analysis and talk in my last thread was determined un-needed. The points from the "fat" helps to get more units/models in my list as well.

Also the debate for my Double Autarch/ Farseer/ Eldrad has been narrowed down to Eldrad vs Farseer. Eldrad is amazing for what he does. However I can get mostly the same support from a Farseer with Stones + Doom + Guide + Runes of Warding for 95 pts less. Hence I am leaning towards the Farseer. However my friend is suggesting I go with Eldrad and many blogs out there go about saying "if your getting stones + 2 abilities go for Eldrad." If someone thinks I am headed in the wrong direction with the Farseer then please tell me. 95 points saved is huge imo.

My current debacle is heavy slots. What will round out my list the best. I currently have 3x War Walkers, 1x Fire Prism, 1x Night Spinner and 1x Falcon. If I need another Prism or w/e then I can get one before the upcoming tournament. So any suggestions or advice on which HS to take would be greatly appreciated. I'll start testing the lists with different HS choices in the meanwhile.

Thoughts? What do you guys think of the Guardian Jetbikes in the list?


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Eldrad List - Gain Scoring Falcon + More anti-AV via Falcon, Eldrad. Lose Fire Prism, Farseer and has 1 less Wave Serpent.
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Eldrad 1

Fire Dragon Squad 5
Transport: WaveSerpent 1
TL Shuriken Cannon 1
Spirit Stone 1

Fire Dragon Squad 5
Transport: WaveSerpent 1
TL Shuriken Cannon 1
Spirit Stone 1

Dire Avengers 5
Transport: WaveSerpent 1
TL Bright Lance 1

Dire Avengers 5
Transport: WaveSerpent 1
TL Eldar ML 1

Dire Avengers 5
Transport: WaveSerpent 1
TL Eldar ML 1

Guardian Jetbikes 3
Shuriken Cannon 1
Warlock Jetbiker 1
Embolden 1

Dire Avengers 5

War Walkers 3
Dual Scatter Lasers 3

Nightspinner 1
Holo-Field 1

Falcon 1
Eldar ML 1
Holo-Field 1
Spirit Stone 1



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Farseer List - Gains 1 more scoring WS, takes Prism over Falcon. Loses scoring Falcon and Falcons anti-av weaponry, Eldrad.
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Farseer 1
Doom 1
Guide 1
Runes of Warding 1

Fire Dragon Squad 5
Transport: WaveSerpent 1
TL Shuriken Cannon 1
Spirit Stone 1

Fire Dragon Squad 5
Transport: WaveSerpent 1
TL Shuriken Cannon 1
Spirit Stone 1

Dire Avengers 5
Transport: WaveSerpent 1
TL Bright Lance 1

Dire Avengers 5
Transport: WaveSerpent 1
TL Eldar ML 1

Dire Avengers 5
Transport: WaveSerpent 1
TL Eldar ML 1

Dire Avengers 5
Transport: WaveSerpent 1
TL Eldar ML 1

Guardian Jetbikes 3
Shuriken Cannon 1
Warlock Jetbiker 1
Embolden 1

War Walkers 3
Dual Scatter Lasers 3

Nightspinner 1
Holo-Field 1
Spirit Stone 1

Fire Prism 1
Holo-Field 1

List 1

Drop the spirit stones on the FD transports and the Bl down to an EML, then upgrade the S Cannons to Scatter lasers. Turn fortune a FD transport and guide the falcon and WWs, the one FD transport fullouts up field while the other move into position a bit more subtly still firing.

I'm not impressed.
Eldrad is a waste, GJB are not needed when there are 3 DA units in Serpents, single Fire Prism.

wuestenfux wrote:I'm not impressed.
Eldrad is a waste, GJB are not needed when there are 3 DA units in Serpents, single Fire Prism.

How is Eldrad a waste when there is two units that need to be guided in the backfield? 5 troops is a solid choice for a 1850 list in tournament scenes, and GJB in the proper format are never a bad choice

Going with BlueDagger here. Eldrad may not put his CC skill to use in a mechdar, but he is certainly never a waste. Divination can help you immensely, in addition to his 3 powers per turn.

Take the first list, the second one is noticably below the first, in my opinion.

I am also for the first list, for the same reasons as everyone else.

BlueDagger wrote:List 1

Drop the spirit stones on the FD transports and the Bl down to an EML, then upgrade the S Cannons to Scatter lasers. Turn fortune a FD transport and guide the falcon and WWs, the one FD transport fullouts up field while the other move into position a bit more subtly still firing.

I like that. Really enjoying stones on fd squad to keep them mobile to get into their target. What do you guys think of dropping the holo field from the spinner. It will be hiding in cover attempting to stay at over 60" the entire game and should be fairly safe... with its holos gone I can get those scatter lasers on the Fe serpents.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also what do you guys think of my heavys. I keep pondering about a lone fire prism. It can chill Max distance as well and stay out of most weapons harm and its versatile.

The real question is what exactly you would do with 45 saved points?

If the answer is just adding a guy or two to a squad somewhere your better off keeping the stones as there's no real upgrades out there for your squad.

I like list one better - Eldrad is always a powerhouse.

Eldrad is good because he gives options you don't otherwise have.

For example, I was playing a Chaos player on Monday. Eldrad's ride was destroyed and he was on foot. That turn I moved him and he did mind war vs. a greater daemon of slannesh. I rolled a 6, he rolled a 1, and the demon died a horrible death.

The point is that Eldrad gives options that you would otherwise not have with just a normal farseer, as he has every power and can use 3 a turn.

Also, you asked for feedback on the Guardian Jetbikes.. I have never liked them. Yes they can score and/or contest late - but in my mind the thought of their point cost against other things that I like to have in the army is too much for me.

But, I'm sure there are those that would advocate strongly on their behalf - I'm not one of them.

Personnal preferance for Eldrad's powers in that list would be

Turn 1:
Fortune FD serpent (which flat-outs into the enemy)
Guide Walkers
Guide Falcon

With careful positioning the walkers can claim cover from the Falcon, while still being able to freely fire.

Turn 2+ (in no dooms are required)

Guide Walkers
Guide Falcon
Fortune Walkers

After your first salvo they should become a target priority, if not a priority from the start. Picking up that many "to hit" dice is worrying for most opponents.
Given your cover saves, and the fortune, that can result in alot of wasted firepower.

I've found walkers to be quite durable in groups of 3, even in the open.
But i am more and more finding units of 2 more to my tastes, 3 seems "too much" firepower far to often. If you don't fully kill something, you can target that unit with a few shots from a serpent to take up the slack. Now i'm all for more dakka, but i dont like wasting it by overkilling anything.

Dakka_X3 wrote:Also, you asked for feedback on the Guardian Jetbikes.. I have never liked them. Yes they can score and/or contest late - but in my mind the thought of their point cost against other things that I like to have in the army is too much for me.

But, I'm sure there are those that would advocate strongly on their behalf - I'm not one of them.

I love arguing on behalf of Guardian Jetbikes.

So lets assume you pay 129 points.

You get 3 Bikes, one with a Shuri Cannon, and a Warlock with a singing spear and embolden.

4 models, toughness 4, 3+ save, 12 inch normal movement, 3+ cover save when moving 24 inches, and 6 inch assault movement.

What this ends up playing out on the table is you have a scoring squad, which has awesome mobility. Because of the warlock, you have to kill them to a man before they cannot regroup, and with embolden they'll regroup more often then not.

When you need extra fire support they are fairly capable of shooting as well. The shuri cannon + singing spear can hit a tank surprisingly hard, and agaisnt infantry all of your shuri catapults are twin linked.

No, Guardian Jetbikes aren't as beat stick as something like guide + doom + Bladestorm Dire Avengers, or 3 flamer storm guardians, or Fire Dragons, But they do give you everything you could ask for in a troop squad. Decent anti tank, amazing speed, easy to hide, and not too many points.

Not that I'm an expert on Mechdar, but look at this 2,000pt list from Stelek, http://yesthetruthhurts.com/2009/12/eldar-analysis-different-way-of-doing/

Wow the more I read on that guy... the more terrible I feel his advice is.

He is advocating moving a Vyper squadron at a 6" pace 24" away from your opponent. Have you ever seen what even bolter fire does to a squadron of Vypers?

He is advocating scatter lasers on falcons, 48" S8 AP2 mixed with 36" S6 AP6 with 24" S6 AP5... yeah, because that isn't conflicting prime choice targets at multiple ranges.

He is advocating an 80 pt Autuach in a MSU list that will give up an easy kill point if it goes with the FD and never see light if it goes with DA. All to give a +1 to reserves in a list that gimps it's firepower if it moves over 6"....

Oh btw without the Farseer you are losing Guide on the Falcons and Runes of Warding.

That list is chuck full of failure if you are going competitive and if you're goign friendly then why do MSU FD and DA... fun games is where the rest of the army gets off the shelf.

I'm assuming you read the complete article?
Bolter fire can hurt Vypers but its still not really that threatening to them, its going to take a stupid amount of bolter fire to actually destroy or even cripple a full squadron of them. No one brings bolter fire in bulk anyway, so really people have to waste proper anti tank weapons to take them down which is anti tank firepower not going into your Falcons and scoring units. The main idea with those Vypers is that they are going to physically prevent aggressive lists/units from pushing through to the Falcons etc behind them.

Scatter Laser + underslung Cannons work great on Falcons, I've found it much more effective than EML (which is really the only other decent choice), although I agree that they would really benefit from Guide. They don't really have conflicting target choices either, S8 and S6 shooting is both fine for hurting light vehicles and works great against infantry as well but both don't work well against heavy armour. Its not the end of the world if you don't get everything in range every round either.

I'm not really sure what you are getting at with the Autarch. That's a common loadout in many competitive lists, and almost all competitive Eldar lists are close to being MSU lists anyway. If you run him with a unit of Dragons tthe extra Fusion Gun pushes you well into the realms of comfortably destroying a vehicle or you can easily just drop the Autarch out the other side of a Serpent and have him shoot at a separate (light) vehicle with a reasonable chance of destroying it (or stay in for another turn and then chase after a vehicle by himself).

Having said that it should be pointed out that its a list that's over a year old. I think the list will still work fine but there are a few things which could easily be changed, notably adding a Farseer instead of a couple of Vypers. Grey Knights make Warding one of the best pieces of wargear in the game.

I've read that blog as well, and honestly I'm not impressed.

If you focus on killing the Vypers (because they should be ‘easy’ to destroy–that’s a misconception, it’s simply “easier” to destroy them–but you usually have to get out of your transports to do so)

This statement is only true if the person you are playing is using a Vulcan SM list. The era of "Melta is the one and only king of AV" is passed and people are now using other long range anti-transport weapons. *edit* If the list is 1+ years old, I can see the logic that squadrens were survivable. This has changed due to more people bringing long range AV.

Let me explain, -- AV 10 open-topped squadrons are a horrible idea. Each penetrating hit has a 50% of destroying the target, and hits are allocated across the squad. Were war-walkers can hide behind ruins to get obscurement, these are just sitting ducks. One rifleman dread can wipe the entire squad in 1 round of shooting. Thats not a misconception, thats a fact.

He suggests putting scatter lasers on falcons. The pulse laser is a weapon designed to destroy medium armor (AV 12). The scatter laser is designed to destroy infantry and AV 10 and 11 -- which is does very well. Mixing the two weapons mixes the role of the falcon. To maximize the role of the falcon, a EML and Pulse laser is the best combination.

Why put bright lances on serpents? Against AV 11 and lower, the scatter laser is a better weapon. Against AV 12 you have falcons. Against AV 13 and above you have dragons or prisms. The lances on the serpents just seem out of place.

Now, I do give him credit for learning that falcons at range are a bitch to kill. Holo-fields increase their survivability threefold. Killing serpents is also hard, as many of the standard tools people use are not as effective (melta guns, ordnance hits, power claws). However, in the assessment of the survivability of vehicle squadrons he is vastly mistaken, and given that 54 of his STR 6 shots are tied up in them, its not a good investment.

As a side note, taking 3 Vypers NOT in a squadron vastly increases their survivability. This is due to target priority -- one vyper does not pose a big threat, and the fact that it takes an entire squads shooting to fire at the vehicle. As a harassment unit, I can see this being worthwhile, but not as the bulk of your weapons.

I'll have to chalk this one up to you being delusional or us having vastly different Metas in our areas. As a competitive tourney player I can say whole heartedly that that #1 that list would be luck to make it to the top half of a tourney, #2 Falcons with Scatter, Cannon and no guide are about as good (metaphorically) as bladestorm with no doom or guide, and #3 Vypers go down like a german whore.

Multi-shot S6 is not uncommon in the slightest and it on the rise thanks to the prevalence of Longfangs, Wolf Cav Deathstar, FNP out the wazoo BA, and the proliferation of DA termies since the recent FAQ. Multiple hits of S6 vs AV10 opn topped will rip it to shreads and focing yourself into a 24" with that vehicle will only make matters worse.