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What do you think the best way to outfit codex Marine Tactical Squad Sergeants and why?

i play salamanders, so, cobmi meltas are the way to go. drop pod in and i at least have two melta shots at a tank, dread, or some other targer, cobi and melta.

i try to keep my tactical squads out of close combat and let them hold objectives, if possible.

What.. no option for PW and Combi-melta?

a combi weapon matching the squads special.


if you have points, the flamer squads get a PW, melta squads get a PF.

scubasteve04 wrote:What do you think the best way to outfit codex Marine Sergeants and why?

That is not a simple one answer question. It depends on the role of the sergeant. It also depends on the composition of your army. For example, if you have a ton of meltas already in your army, adding a combi-melta does not buy as much as a combi-flamer.

However, here are some examples, if its a.....
Scout squad Sergeant who will be assaulting turn 1 in a Shrike army : PF
TAC squad Sergeant deployed aggressively mid-board : Combi-Melta or PF
TAC squad Sergeant deployed to hold home objectives : Combi-Weapon or ~none~
TAC squad Sergeant in an anti-Horde TAC squad : Combi-Flamer
Bike army Sergeant : PF

Deleted

I would go with a matched combi-weapon with the squad, personally.

Nurglitch wrote:There's only one best way to do anything...

Oh, wait, you're serious?

Just because a unit can be outfitted and used for a varity of different roles (I assume this is what you are implying), does not mean there is a top configuration for said unit.

Dreadnoughts can be outfitted to fill a varity of roles, but the 2x TL AC is generally considered the best.

The Valk/Vendetta can be outfitted and used for a varity of roles, but the vendetta is without a doubt the best config.

Long Fangs can be outfitted for a varity of roles with a wide selection of weapons, but Missiles are considered the best.

There is a wide selection of Imperial Guard Artillery, for a wide selection of different strengths and weaknesses, but the Manticore is considered the best.

The only role I've ever seen Tac squads do well is shooting, and assaulting '3' stat units that '4' stat units should beat by dint of stat line.

To that end, I'd match combi with the squad special, and forget about anything else. The power weapon does almost nothing meaningful in combat and the fist simply costs too many points.

I actually have healthy respect for Scouts as an assault unit, so there I am willing to shell out for a fist since that aids in their primary role.

I like the combi weapons, specifically the combi flamer but the melta can be nice to have in the mid field.

For tacticals, just take the bolter. Tacts are so awful in assault. It's not even worth it to take a fist (that will never get used 90% of the time).

For assault marines, take a fist or a power weapon. Assault marines can actually benefit from special weapons.

Fist on a scout sergeant is great for outflanking and popping those pesky backfield tanks and artillery.

That said... I think labmouse has the winning answer:

labmouse42 wrote:

scubasteve04 wrote:What do you think the best way to outfit codex Marine Sergeants and why?

That is not a simple one answer question. It depends on the role of the sergeant. It also depends on the composition of your army. For example, if you have a ton of meltas already in your army, adding a combi-melta does not buy as much as a combi-flamer.

However, here are some examples, if its a.....
Scout squad Sergeant who will be assaulting turn 1 in a Shrike army : PF
TAC squad Sergeant deployed aggressively mid-board : Combi-Melta or PF
TAC squad Sergeant deployed to hold home objectives : Combi-Weapon or ~none~
TAC squad Sergeant in an anti-Horde TAC squad : Combi-Flamer
Bike army Sergeant : PF

Originally meant for the poll to be about Tactical Squad Sergeants; but failed to clarify this.

Other Seargents I find are easier to outfit, because they usually have very defined roles (Scout, Dev, Assault, Bike)

My tactical sergeants may be given a combi-flamer to deal with a large squad that will be assaulting in the near future, or to push out an infantry squad in cover/off an objective in addition to his powerfist...but he always at least has the powerfist.

I know, I know. I can hear some people muttering now: "Combat tactics is free!" Combat tactics is also depending on you rolling high and your opponent rolling low, and that you fall back in a way that lets you wind up more than 6 inches from all his models, which given that you were in CC immediately beforehand might just be able to advance and continue the argument. I use it when I can, but there are times where it WILL Fail, and times where it wouldn't convey me any advantage.

And usually...if a powerfist in a tacsquad fails to do SOMETHING useful before they or the enemy is dead, You..yes *You* The commander, have probably done something wrong or your tacs have managed to get into a situation where no upgrade you can fit on a single tac squad would have really helped.

Examples!

You got hit by a 15 man bloodclaw pack containing two power weapons and a powerfist, led by a wolf guard terminator with a powerfist! (Pre-5th ed codex!)
60 Toxigland hormagaunts to the face!
Trio of leman russ from the far table corner!
Unwashed children near the gaming area!
Lash and obliterator/demolisher!
Two CCS chimeras loaded to the gills with plasmaguns just pulled up into rapidfire range!
More unwashed children near the gaming area!
Disgruntled lovers, your army cases, and public garbage disposal!

I play Imperial Fists, and my tactical squads are stubborn, so when they get into combat (by choice or not) they are usually stuck in it until one side is destroyed. Because of this, I really want to fit a close combat upgrade on my sergeant, but I simply can't find the points for powerfists.

Right now I only have the chainsword and pistol on my Tac Sergeants. Instead of the combi-weapon, I just took a hunter killer on the rhino which essentially is the same thing.

Honestly between a HK Missile and power weapons for the tacs I would take the power weapons hands down, even if it is a couple more points. Power weapons are really not expensive, fists are definitely in the "Ouchie." category of pricing, but it also depends on how many you are needing. Whats your standard list look like?

SOFDC wrote:Honestly between a HK Missile and power weapons for the tacs I would take the power weapons hands down, even if it is a couple more points. Power weapons are really not expensive, fists are definitely in the "Ouchie." category of pricing, but it also depends on how many you are needing. Whats your standard list look like?

My 2k list is:

Lysander-200pts
5x TH/SS, Redeemer, MM, EA- 465pts
10x Marines, Missile, Melta, BP/CCW Sarge, Rhino with HK, dozer- 225pts
10x Marines, Missile, Melta, BP/CCW Sarge, Rhino with HK, dozer- 225pts
5x Scouts, 4x BP/CCW, Sarge has Pfist/shotgun- 100pts
2x Typhoon Speeders- 180pts
2x Typhoon Speeders- 180pts
Land speeder storm, MM- 65pts
Vindicator, Dozer- 120pts
Vindicator, Dozer- 120pts
Vindicator, Dozer- 120pts

The Rhino upgrades were 30pts I had leftover to burn. If it were 50pts, I would take 2x fists on my tacticals hands down. Even dropping the dozers on the vindicators (which I am extremly hesitant to do) that only gives me 45pts extra, coming 5 pts short.

My only real alternative is swapping the HKs for combi meltas on the tactical sergeants.

30 points gets you a pair of power swords for those sergeants at least, If you are having a lot of CC contact with your tacticals. I still prefer the fists for IDing multiwound models and easily wounding T5+ and vehicles...but if the points just are not there, they are not there!

SOFDC wrote:30 points gets you a pair of power swords for those sergeants at least, If you are having a lot of CC contact with your tacticals. I still prefer the fists for IDing multiwound models and easily wounding T5+ and vehicles...but if the points just are not there, they are not there!

Well, considering Lysander, the Vindicators, and the TH termies, there is no shortage of insta death to pass around

why would you buy 2 power swords when a power sword and Bolt pistol do the exact same thing?

or did you mean 2 swords for 2 sergeants?

I personally like the Chainsword+Bolt Pistol for three reasons:

It looks BA on the model
Its free
It gives him base 3 attacks. I love when I have two tacs left in an assault (sarge and one normal), the guy hands me the dice and I say "Ok thats 4 attacks for me" and he usually gets a puzzled look on his face.

I use nothing but BP/Chainsword. I don't see the point in spending more on guy who sucks in assault, and main purpose is to give better LD to a squad. I almost think combis are worth it, but I don't use my tacticals that way, and they are too expensive.

Chainsword, and a Combi of whatever special weapon the squad has.

Well... If you are using the LSS as a transport for the Scouts, the MM is limited use. Keeping the HB or HF gives you more mob killing power and can soften up blobs nicely for the assault from the debarking Scouts.

The HB saves you 15pts, the HF only 5.

sourclams wrote:The only role I've ever seen Tac squads do well is shooting, and assaulting '3' stat units that '4' stat units should beat by dint of stat line.

To that end, I'd match combi with the squad special, and forget about anything else. The power weapon does almost nothing meaningful in combat and the fist simply costs too many points.

I actually have healthy respect for Scouts as an assault unit, so there I am willing to shell out for a fist since that aids in their primary role.

+1

You pretty much summed it up. Whatever tacs can beat in combat, they don't need the fist for. Whatever they can't beat in combat, the fist isn't going to change. But, especially with flamer or plasma, doubling up the squads firepower on that one key turn... is way better than 10 points. We're talking about a 200 point squad that can effectively double it's shooting effectiveness for about 5% increase in cost. Yes please.

My favorite: 10 tactical marines, multimelta, plasmagun, combiplasma, rhino. Matching range-banding (both are good at 24" and better at 12") with 3 low AP weapons. Threatens vehicles, light infantry, heavy infantry, MCs... Can fire as many as 5 AP1 or AP2 shots on a key turn depending on the situation (best case scenario is actually when something comes close and kills the rhino). That's a lot of firepower from a 225 point scoring unit.

-Myst

Matched combi-weapon, or a combi-flamer for 5 man Razorback squads that don't get special weapons. The effect of the combi-weapon is huge for a mere 10 points, so they're IMO pretty much auto-includes unless you're desperately strapped for points.

Didn't vote, didn't see dual Powerfist.

Angry Marines? No?