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If a unit is on top of a tower and takes enough casualties to cause a morale test, which is then failed, what happens? Does the unit go out the door of the bottom of the tower and fall back from there or do they die since they can't make a fall back move? I can't find anything in the rulebook that really mentions this other than that if they can't make a normal fall back movement, they die.

Thoughts?

Why can't they make a normal fallback move??? Is the enemy preventing them from moving down the tower?? As far as I know, the only way that the unit would not fall back is if they are Trapped!

See pg 45 in the BRB covers Fall Back moves and the Trapped! rule, and if there is not another enemy unit blocking them, as they move through the units they were in CC with, there should be nothing stopping them from retreating down the tower and then out toward the table edge.

If by "Tower" you mean "Ruin with more than one storey" then no, there is no way for them to be trapped! in that way. They would fall back down the ruin, not slowed by difficult terrain.

If by tower you mean "intact building" then there are no rules governing units taking morale checks while embarked. Either you kill them, as they are unable to disembark (it's not their movement phase) or you let them disembark as normal. As the rules for Intact Building states they dnot "run down" the tower, the disembark from any hatch OR make an emergency disembark when they need to leave the building.

If you are using a houseruled piece of terrain that does not fit either of the situations above, then you're a little stuck and need to decide yourselves, BEFORE the game, what to do.

Agree with nosferatu. In order for anyone here to properly answer, we have to know how you classified the tower.
Was it an impassable building that could not be entered?
Was it a building that infantry could embark in?
Was it a ruin?

Each one of these structures has different rules that would decide the answer to your question.

OP might be refering to a unit deployed on top of a building(or any other terrain) without a way down at the beginning of the game. In that cases the unit would be trapped and destroyed. As per RAW, this kind of terrain should be impassible and no unit except for jump infantry/jetbikes/skimmers can be deployed there.

Therein lies the problem. If it is impassable, only the units you mentioned could be deployed there, and they would be able to move off the impassable terrain if forced to fall back.

nosferatu1001 wrote:If by "Tower" you mean "Ruin with more than one storey" then no, there is no way for them to be trapped! in that way. They would fall back down the ruin, not slowed by difficult terrain.

If by tower you mean "intact building" then there are no rules governing units taking morale checks while embarked. Either you kill them, as they are unable to disembark (it's not their movement phase) or you let them disembark as normal. As the rules for Intact Building states they dnot "run down" the tower, the disembark from any hatch OR make an emergency disembark when they need to leave the building.

If you are using a houseruled piece of terrain that does not fit either of the situations above, then you're a little stuck and need to decide yourselves, BEFORE the game, what to do.

It was impassable terrain that he infiltrated his unit onto. I managed to kill a majority of the squad resulting in him having to take a morale test that he failed. I'm still relatively new to the game, so some of these things get missed. -- Along with the fact that we didn't think he would fail his 2+ cover that badly.

If he was in an intact building, you can't shoot the squad, as they embark into it exactly like a vehicle. If he hadn't embarked on it then he is not allowed to deploy on top of it (unless he's using a skimmer/jump infantry/jetbike) as the building is impassable terrain.

In that case:

1) If the unit is embarked in a building you can only shoot it directly with template weapons, even if it is visible from the outside.
2) Embarked units never ever test for morale.
3) If you destroy the building, the unit can disembark even during your turn.

Corrode wrote:If he was in an intact building, you can't shoot the squad, as they embark into it exactly like a vehicle. If he hadn't embarked on it then he is not allowed to deploy on top of it (unless he's using a skimmer/jump infantry/jetbike) as the building is impassable terrain.

I was wrong. It was impassable, I forgot we did negotiate that as that was the only way he could infiltrate. So in the case of impassable, he would have just been able to run off of it right?

Jidmah wrote:
2) Embarked units never ever test for morale.

Are you sure this is an actual rule? If so, please cite it's location.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Jidmah wrote:
2) Embarked units never ever test for morale.

Are you sure this is an actual rule? If so, please cite it's location.

P. 63 has a Vehicles and Morale rule -- but I'm not sure if that's what he's referring to.

2) isnt an actual rule. As I already posted there are no rules saying they DONT take morale checks, unfortunately noone asked what happens if they do take them and then fail.....

You cannot deploy in impassable terrain, so he couldnt have been there. Really, the best option is to make the building a true building with an open roof that you can deploy on. That way you can shoot from it, and cant be shot AT unless it is with a template (e.g. flamer) weapon.

nosferatu1001 wrote: You cannot deploy in impassable terrain, so he couldnt have been there.

You can if you can move there.

From the BRB FAQ:

Q: Can a unit deploy in impassable terrain? (p92)
A: Not unless it is specifically allowed to move through
impassable terrain.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Really, the best option is to make the building a true building with an open roof that you can deploy on. That way you can shoot from it, and cant be shot AT unless it is with a template (e.g. flamer) weapon.

You would actually be declaring that the roof is a battlement or parapet. The unit would then be deployed in the building but models can then be placed on the roof and can fire in addition to the buildings fire points. This then makes the building "open topped" for resolving hits against it.

nosferatu1001 wrote:2) isnt an actual rule. As I already posted there are no rules saying they DONT take morale checks, unfortunately noone asked what happens if they do take them and then fail.....

You cannot deploy in impassable terrain, so he couldnt have been there. Really, the best option is to make the building a true building with an open roof that you can deploy on. That way you can shoot from it, and cant be shot AT unless it is with a template (e.g. flamer) weapon.

Yeah next time we'll probably go with that. Sucks for me though since I don't play with many template weapons

I realised the "in" versus "on" there

Plus landing ON impassable terrain (something ji can do) is not the same as "moving through" the terrain.

I admit there is a big difference between 'on' and 'in'. Ask any wo...nevermind,
But for the rules, models can't be placed in impassable terain unless they have a rule allowing it, but the rule for JI and jetbikes says then can end their move in impassable terrain but that they can't end their move on top of impassable terrain unless they can be placed there which they can do if they can be placed on the impassable terrain.
But since only infantry can move or deploy in buildings and models on roof parapets and battlement still count as being in the building, then JI jetbikes and skimmers couldn't be placed on or in the building.
And that should make this all clear as mud.

My fault, I remembered it to be in the BRB FAQ, but the question I was looking for actually was part of the INAT FAQ. It references the tau codex though, one I have no access to, maybe an answer can be found there?
On a different note, even IF units could fall back inside a vehicle, they would be unable to disembark voluntarily as falling back replaces the regular move.

nosferatu1001 wrote:2) isnt an actual rule. As I already posted there are no rules saying they DONT take morale checks, unfortunately noone asked what happens if they do take them and then fail.....

The unit is destroyed since it can't fall back.

It hasnt doubled back, so isnt Trapped! and so isnt destroyed.

Which is why I said the rules are clear as mud

nosferatu1001 wrote:It hasnt doubled back, so isnt Trapped! and so isnt destroyed.

Which is why I said the rules are clear as mud

"If the unit cannot perform a full fall back move in any direction without doubling back, it is destroyed"


Doesn't say they are destroyed if they double back...it says they are destroyed if they can't make a full fall back move (they just aren't allowed to double back)

It hasnt moved any direction, therefore hasnt triggered the "without doubling back" REQUIREMENT of the rule.

"without" makes it a requirement. you have not fulfilled said requirement, so you are not destroyed.

Discuss before the game is the best answer here.

Sorry nos that's not what without means. 'Without' denies its usage in order to fufill the requirement that's all.

You must make a full fall back move, and you may not double back, or else you are destroyed.

It's just denying the usage of doubling back in order to fufill the requirement of making a full fall back. If you are unable to meet the requirement of making a full fall back then you are destroyed.

I am still wondering what is going to cause the unit embarked to take a morale test. As far as I know, nothing but damage effects on the vehicle effect the unit inside.

Well, that and a psyker embarked with them on the transport, casting a power on the unit inside.

Galador wrote:I am still wondering what is going to cause the unit embarked to take a morale test. As far as I know, nothing but damage effects on the vehicle effect the unit inside.

It's been brought up before, gets hot! wounds taken by models in a transport reduce the unit by 25%. Morale check then?

Ah, thanks time. Dunno how to handle that one.

By raw...they would all be trapped...they cannot disembark because you can only disembark in the movment phase or with a wrecked/destroyed result. Therefor the they would be unable to make a full fallback move and would be trapped and destroyed.

Kind of...crappy so i'd probably come up with a house rule with your opponent.

Galador wrote:I am still wondering what is going to cause the unit embarked to take a morale test. As far as I know, nothing but damage effects on the vehicle effect the unit inside.

Well, that and a psyker embarked with them on the transport, casting a power on the unit inside.

Also using a flamer against a unit in a building. Same thing since they are considered embarked as well.

Yeah but the building has a special rule for it about flamers/template weapons, vehicles don;t.

Galador wrote:I am still wondering what is going to cause the unit embarked to take a morale test. As far as I know, nothing but damage effects on the vehicle effect the unit inside.

Well, that and a psyker embarked with them on the transport, casting a power on the unit inside.

Get's Hot tests? Special weapon squad with three plasma guns has a fairly significant chance of having to take a morale check.