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With the Cleansing flame power that purifiers get, combined with the 2 attacks each that they get, is it worth paying for the entire squad to get daemon hammers? At 50 pts for the whole squad, that is 20-30 attacks with S8 (or ten if you use hammerhand instead, or from attached librarian).

The reason why I thought it might be a good idea is that cleansing flamer has a good chance of cleaning out some enemy numbers before they get to strike at you. This can offset the drawback of being I1 with daemonhammers, especially against poor save horde units. Massed hammer squads work really well assaulting even moving vehicles, and these guys don't even give up their shooting to do it.

Would some combination of other weapons perhaps be more optimal? Spamming another kind of weapon, like falcions, to have 30-40 attacks for the squad, or halberds to emphasize the dead before you get a chance aspect?

This unit is potentially a huge points sink, would a full squad even be wise?

The squad can still take shooting weapons, and in larger numbers than strike squads. Is it worth giving up the superb close combat attacks for the shooting weapons?

How about whether you take Crowe or not? Personally I probably won't be taking him in most games, so will only have 1 squad of the them.

I for one, love Crowe. I really can't wrap my mind around "Crowe Sucks"... He isn't great, but the way I see it, he's the best GK SC... Let's look at it like this:

-I'd pay 50 pts to make my purifiers scoring (let's say via some banner or by paying 15pts/units or etc).
-In that sense, I feel like Crowe costs me 100pts.
-For 100 pts, I've got a guy that can go toe-to-toe with a similar 100pts SM captain and will probably beat him. Even if the SM captain charges and get FC and re-rolls, I can "turtle up" using shield stance (re-rollable 2+/4++) and weather the attack. Even if he does kill me, I bring him with me most of the time using Heroic sacrifice. Heck, Marneus Calgar, Drago or any other similar SC would fear him in CC because even if they win, they lose 66% of the time (88% if they kill Crowe the turn he charges!).
-I've also got a guy that can kill 12-13 Orks in a mob before the CC even begins or bring the Klaw nobz down to hell, leaving that big blob neutered.

The price I've got to pay for this is that I must not let him be shot down (with a 2+/4+ save, I should be able to do that - or even keep him out of LOS or in reserves or outflanking w/scout!). It's better (not crucial) that I assault rather than be assaulted (which is true of almost any unit in 40K). I say better, because even if I get assault by a dedicated assault unit (bar assault termies and their 3++ save), I'll drag the same amount of point down with me either through CF or Heroic Sacrifice.

Is he the great "must always take him" Crowe? No. But does he "Suck badly"? Also no! I'd rather have him than "break the bank cuz I cost the same as 10 purifiers w/psycannons Draigo"

My two cents on Crowe!

Anyhow, back on topic... I feel that halberd are the real winners here. for 2 points, you get 2 force weapons attacks that hit before almost anything. That and cleansing should keep almost anything from really hitting back against hordes (killing 18-19 orks before they attack, more if you assault!). Against small tough units, you can get them to St5 (thus killing those TLC assault termies before they hit). Against Nobz bikers or thunderwolves, you can use your force weapons Instakill at Ini 6!. I'd keep a hammer on the justicar and Master-craft it just in case you get that dreadnought in CC.

Otherwise: 10 purifiers: 4 psycannons, 5 halberd, 1 MC TH on the justicar. Split in combat squads: 5 w/4 psycannons and 5 w/4 halberd and the Justicar.

Phil

Personally I see 2 psycannons and a rhino as no-brainers. Turns an already very choppy unit into a threat during shooting.
After that it all depends on what the squad size is. Anything between 5-10 WORKS, experimenting is needed before anyone can say that a certain number is better.
6 is rather easy from a counting point of view.

Weapon options are...well Halberds are dirt-cheap for a great boost, the rest of the weapons are not. But a few hammers could be needed to ID tougher things.

So the basic gist IMO is 2x Psycannons, 1-2 Hammers, the rest with halberds, all in a rhino.

Boreas, I think a lott of the "crow sucks" refers to him not having the independent character rule.

With that being told, purifiers are just NASTY. I would rather have "ATSKNF" instead of fearless but that is OK. The fact that you get 2 heavy weaponds per 5 is pretty amasing, they have the flame power, and they have 2 attacks. No other power armour unit in the book comes close. (OK the heavy weaponds options can have 4 flamers in a rhino for 140 points.) Purifiers is the bomb!

PS: Keep in mind that the brotherhood of psykers rule you can only use on psycic power per turn so it is:
Horde - flames
MC - Instant death
Marines - Hammerfists

I gues it comes down to list design. Grey knights need AT and they have problem with MSU so that points to the 6 man razorback. But 10 the marine rhinol is just that more choppy and they have to kill a good amount if units before they come to the goddies.

All hammers? Hell no. Halberds are 2p each. Everyone gets a Halberd.

Take 1 or 2 hammers in case you run into a tank.

The problem with the all halbers option is this:

Will you make it into close combat?
Will everything you fight have I4 to 6?

If not both of those awsers are yes then you are throwing points out the windom. Not very many points I'll admit but shurly you dont need halberds on all of them?

ph34r wrote:All hammers? Hell no. Halberds are 2p each. Everyone gets a Halberd.

Take 1 or 2 hammers in case you run into a tank.

Taking 1 or 2 means you aren't as good against tanks as you would like to be. 2 hammers = 6 attacks. Moving tank? 1 hit, which probably auto pens, but only kills 1/3 of the time/ 5 hammers? 15 attacks, 2-3 pens, much better chance of killing it. Against dreads, you don't want a prolonged assault. 2 hammers if you charged = 3 hits, and about 2 pens if you get hammerhands off Just one hammer is 1.5 hits, and a poor chance to destroy

Sure Halberds are cheap. Might even make them the "default" option. Against enemy termies the sword is going to be better against PFs and THs (still going first, improved invul) but the halberd is going to be better against LCs (high volume, and I4-5)

Against many xenos armies the I6 option does look pretty good. Honestly I've found the higher Initiative xenos armies tend to have poor saves, and low number of PWs (relying on attack spam and rending usually). That is why I was thinking that the cleansing flame might knock their numbers down enough that deamon hammers might be a great option. Instant squish characters, and giving anti tank and anti MC ability to the squad (still have to cause a wound to force weapon it)

Niiai wrote:
Will you make it into close combat?

That's sort of the point of Purifiers, so yes.

Niiai wrote:
Will everything you fight have I4 to 6?

Look at what doesn't; do Purifiers wreck those units with Purifying Flame anyway? Yes.

notabot187 wrote:
Sure Halberds are cheap. Might even make them the "default" option. Against enemy termies the sword is going to be better against PFs and THs (still going first, improved invul) but the halberd is going to be better against LCs (high volume, and I4-5)

You have to have an invulnerable save to improve in the first place though...

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

notabot187 wrote:
Sure Halberds are cheap. Might even make them the "default" option. Against enemy termies the sword is going to be better against PFs and THs (still going first, improved invul) but the halberd is going to be better against LCs (high volume, and I4-5)

You have to have an invulnerable save to improve in the first place though...

doh. Still getting used to all the wrinkles

I'd look at arming them in the context of the rest of your army and then you can play to their strengths.

For a start, they can take two heavy weapons per 5, so I'd definitely have two psycannons. And they have two attacks each but since you're losing the force weapons from the two guys with psycannons, I'd stick falchions on the other three meaning that you have 9 attacks with force weapons, 12 if you charge. So, you're looking at some heavy firepower and lots of CC attacks there.

If you're worried about lack of anti tank or being able to deal with high initiative CC enemies, then I'd say take two 5 man interceptor squads - one armed with halberds for the initiative 6 and another squad armed with daemonhammers. Because they move like jump infantry and have a once per game 30" jump they can react quickly to more specific threats that the purifiers aren't as well equipped to deal with - they can either jump into tank hunt or screen your more expensive purifiers from high initiative CC opponents.

I would say you'd have to take crowe for this so stick him next to some other units you take like dreadnoughts or whatever to frighten opponents away from his general area ( death cult assassins, cheap, well armed acolytes, there are loads of options).