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So, yeah. Only six units of henchmen and so forth so it will be legal. I'm going to build this one in the next two months and hopefully give it a test run with SM proxies already tomorrow. I need to buy a couple Chimeras for a future IG army anyway. The Henchmen are just lovely. The 4x Crusader and 4x DC Assassin units do much better than Marines for their points cost in the assault role, but in this particular list I've gone with no counter-assault of any kind. I replaced all of it with guns. Remember that Coteaz allows seize the initiative to be re-rolled and allows one unit of his choosing to shoot at nearby deep strikers ala mystics of old.

-Torquemada Coteaz

-Venerable Dreadnought, Psybolts, 2x TL Autocannon
-Venerable Dreadnought, Psybolts, 2x TL Autocannon
-Venerable Dreadnought, Psybolts, 2x TL Autocannon

-5 Servitors, 5 Multi-Meltas, Chimera (Heavy Flamer)
-3 Warrior Acolytes, 3 Meltaguns, Chimera (Heavy Flamer)
-3 Warrior Acolytes, 3 Meltaguns, Chimera (Heavy Flamer)
-3 Warrior Acolytes, 3 Meltaguns, Chimera (Heavy Flamer)
-3 Warrior Acolytes, 3 Plasma Guns, Jokaero Weaponsmith, Chimera (Heavy Flamer)
-3 Warrior Acolytes, 3 Plasma Guns, Jokaero Weaponsmith, Chimera (Heavy Flamer)

-Dreadnought, Psybolts, 2x TL Autocannon
-Dreadnought, Psybolts, 2x TL Autocannon
-Dreadnought, Psybolts, 2x TL Autocannon

Total Points 1750 Total Models 33 Total Vehicles 12

It will definitely be a fast playing army. I like the Plasma/Jokaero inclusion; locally I've started to see the secondary effects of the DA updated FAQ. AP2 weapons will be necessary (kinda sad I'm happy models will only be getting a 3+ save these days).

If you're curious those 6 Dreadnoughts put out more firepower than 10 IG Hydras. It's pretty fierce. Anti-AV11/12 isn't therefore lacking, anti-horde isn't lacking (8 heavy flamers) and anti-AV14 shouldn't be lacking (7 multi-meltas, 9 meltas). 12 vehicles is also a pretty good amount. Sure good IG lists realistically have about 2 more at this points value but that doesn't mean they have more guns (hits) overall.

It's pretty interesting. The process of testing naturally goes so that if we decide this list has more than enough firepower we can replace a tiny bit of it with one serious assault unit (a mixed henchman unit) for added flexibility.

Only 3 servitors can exchange their servo-arm with a heavy weapon.

Otherwise, looks like it's chock full of dakka and vehicles to kill. At higher point values I think competitive GK armies will have what you have for heavy and elites. You've got a metric crapton of long range light-medium vehicle killing power, which is probably the most important thing an army can have nowadays. Against horde armies you could be in trouble (trust me, heavy flamers just don't cut it as your main tool,) but nobody plays those much anymore except a few wacky people like me that like to go against the flow. A MEQ horde army would do really well against this army, such as a black templar crusader horde, since you have no assault units or low ap blasts. You're highly unlikely to run into something like that though, so you should be fine and probably experience a good degree of success.

A mixed death cult/crusader unit could be very useful here. If you dropped a ven dread you could replace one of your henchmen units with this and add more plasma/melta warrior acolytes to the others.

add more plasma/melta warrior acolytes to the others.

I was under the impression that only 3 warriors can have special weapons.

A different list (a legal one too this time):

-Torquemada Coteaz

-Venerable Dreadnought, Psybolts, 2x TL Autocannon
-Venerable Dreadnought, Psybolts, 2x TL Autocannon
-Venerable Dreadnought, Psybolts, 2x TL Autocannon

-2 Warrior Acolytes, 2 Meltaguns, 2 Crusaders, 4 Death Cult Assassins, Chimera (Heavy Flamer)
-3 Warrior Acolytes, 3 Meltaguns, Chimera (Heavy Flamer)
-3 Warrior Acolytes, 3 Meltaguns, Chimera (Heavy Flamer)
-3 Warrior Acolytes, 3 Meltaguns, Chimera (Heavy Flamer)
-3 Warrior Acolytes, 3 Plasma Guns, Chimera (Heavy Flamer)
-3 Warrior Acolytes, 3 Plasma Guns, Chimera (Heavy Flamer)

-Dreadnought, Psybolts, 2x TL Autocannon
-Dreadnought, Psybolts, 2x TL Autocannon
-Dreadnought, Psybolts, 2x TL Autocannon

Therion wrote:

add more plasma/melta warrior acolytes to the others.

I was under the impression that only 3 warriors can have special weapons.

You're right. I'm still figuring out what is different between the playtest codex and the final version (I've got both but sometimes make incorrect assumptions.) New version of your list looks good.

Venerable Psyfleman dreadnoughts seem like a really good way to waste 600 points. I would drop them for 20 purifiers with full PCs, halberds, and some hammers.

Venerable Dreadnoughts are overpriced sure but only by a bit. Three of them put out approximately same amount of damage into AV12 as 7 IG Hydras (which cost 525 points).

I could consider one or two 5man Purifier units in Razorbacks but I'm not sure the list really needs them for anything at all. Cleansing Flame is nice but other than that I'm not so sure.

ph34r wrote:Venerable Psyfleman dreadnoughts seem like a really good way to waste 600 points. I would drop them for 20 purifiers with full PCs, halberds, and some hammers.

Swapping a dread or two for purifiers in rhinos would give you that assault element you're lacking, ridiculously good anti-horde, and they'd still have good shooting, albeit at a shorter range, which they can do out of the rhino for the most part. 5 purifiers with 2 psycannons in a rhino will run you 180 points, 10 less than a ven psyrifleman dread. Toss in a couple daemonhammers and/or halberds you're good to go.

Culler wrote:

ph34r wrote:Venerable Psyfleman dreadnoughts seem like a really good way to waste 600 points. I would drop them for 20 purifiers with full PCs, halberds, and some hammers.

Swapping a dread or two for purifiers in rhinos would give you that assault element you're lacking, ridiculously good anti-horde, and they'd still have good shooting, albeit at a shorter range, which they can do out of the rhino for the most part. 5 purifiers with 2 psycannons in a rhino will run you 180 points, 10 less than a ven psyrifleman dread. Toss in a couple daemonhammers and/or halberds you're good to go.

Well like I said in the beginning this is something that has to be based on testing. The balance between assault and shooting is delicate. The idea is sound though. I go with 75% shooting 25% assault with most of my Marine armies.

The more that I think about it ph34r and you are right, those Purifier squads in Rhinos sound good. The difference that I didn't first realise is naturally the 2 firepoints for the two psycannons. Even the fortitude can be said to do something as it will allow the passengers to keep on shooting despite any shaken or stunned results. They cost 180 points then for quite a lot of psycannon shots and that counter-charge element that we want. We can then truly min/max the troops section too because our assault elements have already been established.


EDIT: So here we go. A version with Razorbacks. You can convert them to Rhinos and have 135 points to spend but no good slots to spend it on.

-Coteaz: 100p

-5 Purifiers, 2 Psycannons, Razorback, Psybolts, TL Assault Cannon: 225p
-5 Purifiers, 2 Psycannons, Razorback, Psybolts, TL Assault Cannon: 225p
-5 Purifiers, 2 Psycannons, Razorback, Psybolts, TL Assault Cannon: 225p

-3 Servitors, 3 Multi-Meltas, Chimera, Heavy Flamer: 85p
-3 Warrior Acolytes, 3 Meltaguns, Chimera, Heavy Flamer: 97p
-3 Warrior Acolytes, 3 Meltaguns, Chimera, Heavy Flamer: 97p
-3 Warrior Acolytes, 3 Meltaguns, Chimera, Heavy Flamer: 97p
-3 Warrior Acolytes, 3 Meltaguns, Chimera, Heavy Flamer: 97p
-3 Warrior Acolytes, 3 Meltaguns, Chimera, Heavy Flamer: 97p

-Dreadnought, Psybolts, 2 TL Autocannons: 135p
-Dreadnought, Psybolts, 2 TL Autocannons: 135p
-Dreadnought, Psybolts, 2 TL Autocannons: 135p

I just want to note that razorbacks have no firing points, so unless you're planning on disembarking your purifiers or want a ranged weapon to use for when the razorback is destroyed, you're not going to get a lot of good out of the psycannons. That's why I like the purifiers in just rhinos, but you make a good points about then having lots of points left over and no slots to spend them on.

To use up your extra points you could always add jokaeros to your servitor/acolyte units to give them a lascannon shot for when their short range weapons aren't in range and an extra heavy flamer for the unit and a random chance at an upgrade. You know you want 24" range meltaguns that you can move and shoot. Alternatively you could add normal warrior acolytes as ablative wounds to keep your special weapons alive when the transport is blown up. Filling a squad out with storm bolter acolytes would give you cheap plentiful anti-infantry fire that you don't have a lot of.

It's a pity that fast attack sucks in pretty much every codex, this one especially. I'd love to use an interceptor squad with 2 incinerators to instantly teleport 30" and completely roast something, but I have better things to do with 300 points.

Imperium Codex's are stupid rofl

With all the Dreads being able to drop most armor at range, I think one of the bigger issues to playtest is just how much Melta you really need. I'm thinking the list needs to stay at range as much as possible and getting Plasma Guns firing from Chimeras will be necessary.

I'd still be concerned about how to handle a Wolfstar unit that does make it into your deployment zone. You've got a ton of shooting, but no real counter-assault which you acknowledged in your first post.

However, I do think this is a very scary list.

I'd still be concerned about how to handle a Wolfstar unit that does make it into your deployment zone. You've got a ton of shooting, but no real counter-assault which you acknowledged in your first post.

The list has been edited multiple times. The latest one has 15 Purifiers for that mop up duty plus a lot of guns still. The list will change a bit still but I think I have the basics down now. Max units of Purifiers with max units of Acolytes with max Dreadnoughts.

and getting Plasma Guns firing from Chimeras will be necessary.

Las/Plas Razorbacks can do some of that as well. They add 3 BS4 TL Plasma Guns afterall.

I just want to note that razorbacks have no firing points, so unless you're planning on disembarking your purifiers or want a ranged weapon to use for when the razorback is destroyed, you're not going to get a lot of good out of the psycannons.

They're not going to ride inside the Razorbacks against armies that have to come at me and have relatively weak firepower. Cover saves for the guys and I'm good. If however I need to move, I can move them with the Razorback. They can still even shoot a couple times with the psycannons after they disembark.

To use up your extra points you could always add jokaeros

Thought about it but I'd really want just another tank or a unit entirely to even consider it. Afterall, the difference between 3 Razorbacks (be they las/plas or psycannon) and 3 Rhinos from a firepower perspective is quite huge. For me to decide to go with less firepower I'd like to get something concrete, not just upgrades to something other than the Rhinos.

I'd go with Rhinos.

The 135 points could go into Jokeros to maximise those extra 2 fire points or even 2 more melta Warriors for the servitor squad. I'd also consider going with more plasam in the non-servitor squads, 3 melta squads and 3 plasma squads would be a good mix.

Otherwise bump up one purifier squad consider making that one take Falcions for 5 attacks each on the charge and sprinkle Halberds around the others to give you I6 if you need to counter charge MEQ.

FlingitNow wrote:Otherwise bump up one purifier squad consider making that one take Falcions for 5 attacks each on the charge

Do they count as 2 ccws and give a bonus attack in addition or is a pair of falchions considered one weapon that gives a bonus attack, effectively making it like they were 2 ccws? I wasn't quite sure myself. I'm also curious how they will model nemesis falchions on a model that also has a storm bolter. Could be epic.

The basic Grey Knights has a picture of one of the Purifiers having Falchions and a SB. Currently the Falchions are 2 force weapons that give +1 attack. So they give you +1 for having 2 CCWs and you gain a further +1, that they cost 10 pts a model for strike squads should tell you that they wouldn't just give +1 A.

FlingitNow wrote:The basic Grey Knights has a picture of one of the Purifiers having Falchions and a SB

The posing on that one looks a little ridiculous. I'm sure people can do better.

Well yes and I'd be tempted to use a full length sword for the right hand using the short sword for the off hand, definitely lots of cool options straight out of the box.

I wanted to add the Servo Skulls because well, they're just too good to pass. The second Inquisitor also gives me access to a second dirt cheap triple MM squad. I also added two S6 AP3 pie plates for Devastators/Long Fangs, AM, FNP Dark Eldar, or just other foot units. Whether they misfire or not is largely irrelevant. They cost 40 points per unit and have potential and I don't need any more anti-tank at all. If the Servo Skulls are in range, the shot won't scatter at all.

HQ
-Coteaz: 100p
-Inquisitor, 2 Servo Skulls: 31p
ELITES
-5 Purifiers, 2 Psycannons, Razorback, Lascannon, TL Plasma Guns: 220p
-5 Purifiers, 2 Psycannons, Razorback, Lascannon, TL Plasma Guns: 220p
-5 Purifiers, 2 Psycannons, Razorback, Lascannon, TL Plasma Guns: 220p
TROOPS
-3 Servitors, 3 Multi-Meltas, Chimera, Heavy Flamer: 85p
-3 Servitors, 3 Multi-Meltas, Chimera, Heavy Flamer: 85p
-3 Warriors, 3 Meltaguns, Chimera, Heavy Flamer: 97p
-3 Warriors, 3 Meltaguns, Chimera, Heavy Flamer: 97p
-4 Psykers, Chimera, Heavy Flamer: 95p
-4 Psykers, Chimera, Heavy Flamer: 95p
HEAVY SUPPORT
-Dreadnought, Psybolts, 2 TL Autocannons: 135p
-Dreadnought, Psybolts, 2 TL Autocannons: 135p
-Dreadnought, Psybolts, 2 TL Autocannons: 135p

Total Points: 1750

That is a fairly shocking amount of dakka in 1750 points. The only thing you've not got a lot of is long-range anti-infantry, but it's certainly there in sufficient amounts to get whatever you need done eventually. Not having much experience myself with GKs I can only give you theoretical performances, you'll have to playtest to see how things work out for you and what style of play works with this army.