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The latest FAQ and the model has to be entirely on the table got a friend and I thinking. Do Valkyries and Storm Ravens have to take dangerous terrain checks if their nose, wing, tail hanging over terrain or do they only need to take difficult terrain checks if the base is in terrain?

Wings, nose etc all counts as the hull, so yes.

My friends and I don't count the wings as the hull but I'd definately say the nose for sure. Everything is measured to the hull with the exception of embarking.

Wings are certainly Hull by BRB Definition: they are not Gun Barrels, dozer blades, antennas, banners or other decorative elements; unless of course you think the Valk could fly/"skim" without the Wings and their engines.

OP the Skimmer entry does make a distinction between the Skimmier being "in" or "over" various types of terrain.

It must be "in" Difficult terrain to force the DT test, but it Can be "over" impassable(and will require the DT test).

Since BRB was written before any winged vehicles were in the game and the odds of hitting the narrow profile of a wing (exceptions are made for models shooting up into it) are pretty low, we've house ruled it that way. But BRB is very clear that if any portion of the vehicle starts or ends it's movement in DT it must take the test.

Yep "in" Difficult, not over Difficult; there is a difference.

Any of the model is within the boundary of a Forrest: DT Test

Wing, nose, or tail hanging over a crossable river: no test.

As far as the "what constitutes hull" the Wings do count, Eldar Skimmer-tanks, Dark Eldar Raiders/Ravagers(with their wings), Land Speeders(with their wings) were all out when the 5th ed BRB was written, Wings Count.

Also when your models are in a position that the Wing has a very small Cross-section; those models are directly in front of the valk; then they are in a Side arc; the wing is broad and easily seen/targeted.

If you insist.

Wings and tail (and certainly nose; can't imagine anyone thinking that doesn't) count for Difficult Terrain. As said, they aren't gun barrels, dozer blades, antennae "or other decorative elements" as called out by page 56.

Basically gun barrels, sticky-out bits like dozers, and other ancillary or decorative bits which aren't part of the actual body of the model don't count.

A skimmer's base has never, ever (at least not since 1998)mattered in terms of where a Skimmer is for difficult terrain. Landspeeders and Eldar Grav Tanks have been substantially larger than their bases for many years, and they deal with difficult terrain based on their hull.

They really need flyer rules so this doesn't happen because if you think about it your Valkyrie or Storm Raven is actually above the terrain not in it so doesn't care about it.

In the fluff Eldar grav tanks can fly too.

Fluff =/= rules.

Why would you not go by where the base is as opposed the elements on the model? I would argue that if the base of said vehicle is not touching difficult terrain then why should I roll a test for my wing hanging over it.

That is how I look at it. Of course I am probably wrong.

because the Rules tell us to go by the model, not the Base; excepting very limited circumstances.

Bikeninja wrote:Why would you not go by where the base is as opposed the elements on the model?

Because most of the skimmers in the game are FAR larger than their bases. Because the body/hull of the model has always, consistently, been what matters and what you measure to and from for skimmers, at least since 3rd edition came out in 1998 (possibly longer). The base is not the vehicle. The vehicle's body is the vehicle. I've been running my Falcons and Wave Serpents (which have, what, three or four times the surface area as their flying base?) the same way for twelve years now. It's not like it's a change.

There are a few special exceptions for bases; in 5th you can assault a skimmer's base if you can't reach the hull (this is especially likely with a short model like a swarm vs a skimmer on a tall flying stand). And they created a few more exceptions for Valks/Vends/SRs to deal with their exceptional height. But they're exceptions.

Ok, that makes since.

Son 0f Dorn wrote:Since BRB was written before any winged vehicles were in the game and the odds of hitting the narrow profile of a wing (exceptions are made for models shooting up into it) are pretty low, we've house ruled it that way. But BRB is very clear that if any portion of the vehicle starts or ends it's movement in DT it must take the test.

What do you do when the wing is sticking out from the side of a large building? The valk can now shoot the weapon on the wing but cannot be targeted.