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Not quite as strong as that, obviously, but that is the general feeling of doom I wish to convey. With the FAQ update beefing up all the termy lists with firepower and survivability, making termie BT and deathwing along with loganwing, hard counters to DOA, as well as the new grey knights codex making them close combat powerhouses, has DOA been officially and finally been kicked off the ladder of army types?

Im sure Grey Knights will easily beat every other army. They are so good everyone will have to play them.

Codex: Grey Knights came to my house and slept with my mother. Then it made me congratulate it for being more manly than I am.

A DOA list is good becasue you have a variety of different deployment options. I think that you do not always have to go all reserves and DS.

Against long range shooting armies, (think Guard, Tau, or Razorspam), it is best to drop quickly and melta people. The enemy will either have squads that are bad in close combat, OR very small and as such they will not want to charge you. You weather a turn of fire, and then take them out next turn.

Against Close Combat armies, You generaly want to start on the board. You can fly up, melta a transport, and then assault the stuff inside. With Furious Charge, Your assault marines can take on the heavier hitters. You do not want to drop and let the enemy get the charge off on you.

Grey Knights probably fall in to category 2, Close Combat. They do not have a lot of long range shooting. Watch out for Vindicares sniping your priests, and crazy Scout Shunt moves and you should be fine.

Many DOA lists have become more hybridized with the inclusion of Devastators and other long range units, and these will help against the Knights as well.

I think the Blood Angel DOA list will own Grey Knights. Of course you will not be able to DOA but the units with the 3+ armor, 4+ feel no pain wil be able to survive the massed high strength firepower for 1-2 turns and in assualt the angels will wipe the floor with with the GK. A couple units really shine to me:

1. Sanguinary Guard with the banner. Support them with a priest close by and you get 20 s5 i5 power weapons attacks rerolling 1 miss from each guy. Also the 2+ save n tese guys will make then vey durable against GK massed high strength atacks.
2. Librarian. He is Leadership 10 so his psychic hood will stop most of the powers being thrown off by the trop squads as their leadership is 9 with the justicar and 8 without. I haven't seen too many lists yet with the 150 point GK librarian which means that there is a good shot of getting off the shield of sanguiius each turn as well.

Just some of my thoughts.

BrPrometheus wrote:I think the Blood Angel DOA list will own Grey Knights. Of course you will not be able to DOA but the units with the 3+ armor, 4+ feel no pain wil be able to survive the massed high strength firepower for 1-2 turns and in assualt the angels will wipe the floor with with the GK. A couple units really shine to me:

1. Sanguinary Guard with the banner. Support them with a priest close by and you get 20 s5 i5 power weapons attacks rerolling 1 miss from each guy. Also the 2+ save n tese guys will make then vey durable against GK massed high strength atacks.
2. Librarian. He is Leadership 10 so his psychic hood will stop most of the powers being thrown off by the trop squads as their leadership is 9 with the justicar and 8 without. I haven't seen too many lists yet with the 150 point GK librarian which means that there is a good shot of getting off the shield of sanguiius each turn as well.

Just some of my thoughts.

Two words: Warp Quake. Go ahead, deep strike! I dare you! As for the CC, the Sanguinary Guard will be very durable against the shooting, with exception for the rending psycannons. Once they get into combat with someone with a halberd, they'll cry themselves to sleep. The Grey Knights Librarians are awesome, as in totally ridiculously awesome. +1 to cover saves, Ini 10 to his squad, summon GKs from the other side of the board, increase squad S etc. And pray that you don't run into a Dreadknight. Just how would DoA kill a Dreadknight anyway?

It's not like every unit is going to have lots of halberds.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

BrPrometheus wrote:I think the Blood Angel DOA list will own Grey Knights. Of course you will not be able to DOA but the units with the 3+ armor, 4+ feel no pain wil be able to survive the massed high strength firepower for 1-2 turns and in assualt the angels will wipe the floor with with the GK. A couple units really shine to me:

1. Sanguinary Guard with the banner. Support them with a priest close by and you get 20 s5 i5 power weapons attacks rerolling 1 miss from each guy. Also the 2+ save n tese guys will make then vey durable against GK massed high strength atacks.
2. Librarian. He is Leadership 10 so his psychic hood will stop most of the powers being thrown off by the trop squads as their leadership is 9 with the justicar and 8 without. I haven't seen too many lists yet with the 150 point GK librarian which means that there is a good shot of getting off the shield of sanguiius each turn as well.

Just some of my thoughts.

Two words: Warp Quake. Go ahead, deep strike! I dare you! As for the CC, the Sanguinary Guard will be very durable against the shooting, with exception for the rending psycannons. Once they get into combat with someone with a halberd, they'll cry themselves to sleep. The Grey Knights Librarians are awesome, as in totally ridiculously awesome. +1 to cover saves, Ini 10 to his squad, summon GKs from the other side of the board, increase squad S etc. And pray that you don't run into a Dreadknight. Just how would DoA kill a Dreadknight anyway?

Tactics would change a lot between GK armies.

DOA would actually work well against a 6 rifleman dread list as there is no AV to shoot at and everything has a 3+ save.

BA and GK librarian hoods will make all psychic powers on both sides unreliable.

DOA would have to deploy on the field and not deep strike against an army with a lot of GK. PAGK with halberds are bad, but not the end of the world. They only have 1 attack each, so if they are swarmed with superior numbers the halberds be that bad.

Dreadnights would also need to be swarmed and melta gunned. Sanguinary Guard would also do OK against dreadnights as they have an I lower than 5, but the charge would be risky as they would need 5's to wound with FC.

It's a tough uphill battle against GK, but DOA can definitely do it.

One thing DoA has that GK don't is considerable mobility. If you just rush a GK army, you deserve to lose, and lose horribly. Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.

Black Fiend wrote:Im sure Grey Knights will easily beat every other army. They are so good everyone will have to play them.

Go home GBF


Automatically Appended Next Post:

prussia59 wrote:Not quite as strong as that, obviously, but that is the general feeling of doom I wish to convey. With the FAQ update beefing up all the termy lists with firepower and survivability, making termie BT and deathwing along with loganwing, hard counters to DOA, as well as the new grey knights codex making them close combat powerhouses, has DOA been officially and finally been kicked off the ladder of army types?

Was DoA ever really relevant?

DoA is popular. I see quite a few people playing it where I game. It's just as relevant as any army.

Fafnir wrote:If you just rush a GK army, you deserve to lose, and lose horribly. Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.

Could you explain this? I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just wondering... since I play a Wych Cult thats kind of my thing.

revackey wrote:

Fafnir wrote:If you just rush a GK army, you deserve to lose, and lose horribly. Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.

Could you explain this? I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just wondering... since I play a Wych Cult thats kind of my thing.

Grey Knights, especially with their independant characters able to take crippling Rad, Blind and Psychostroke grenades, in addition to their devestating countercharge psychic powers (Sanctuary, Cleansing Flame) and the initiative boost of Halberds make for an incredibly deadly unit that cannot be taken lightly.

Sheesh it's time to pick you some warriors. At least I got Invul saves up my sleeves.

Wych Cult should still work, but you'll need to soften up the scarier enemy units considerably before actually assaulting. Additionally, you'll want to keep your wyches cheap, since chances are they won't be living through the battle anyway.

Thankfully, Grey Knight armies will generally have a very low model count, so if you can keep your attrition going strong and keep control over the game with your superior movement, you should be able to do fine.

That is true, I'm almost thinking a WWP list would do better do to the fact that their S5 Storm Bolters will open my Raiders up with little problem. But thats another topic. . . Thank you Fafnir.