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As I mused at the end of this thread, with the prevalence of Psykers and Psyker vehicles, it seems to me that WH Inquisition with anti-Psyker gear and powers would be an excellent counter to the new GK. Thoughts, discussions, ect. are always welcome.

For those of you without a WH Codex, it is available for download for free from GW's website with free registration at that same site.

If you have to download the codex you can't use the allies rule. I don't know if you can even buy new copies of the WH dex anymore. Eldar with their stones of warding should really really hamper the GK book.

Death strike missile launchers, they solve everything.

xlightscreen wrote:Death strike missile launchers, they solve everything.

(Laughs)

I concur though, WH should be able to be decent against GK, except that they're all T3 so those improved Storm Bolters are gonna be wounding on 2+ - even power armor can only do so much. Not to mention they don't have much to counter terminators and the like.

doubled wrote:If you have to download the codex you can't use the allies rule. I don't know if you can even buy new copies of the WH dex anymore. Eldar with their stones of warding should really really hamper the GK book.

I have my own physical WH Codex. I merely posted that it is available for download for those that wish to view it to see how it could shape up against the new GK. I personally don't need to use the crutch of allies in either of my SoB army or my WH Inquisition army. I could see Eldar SoW hampering GK, but not actively being offensive toward them as WH Inquisition appears to be.

doubled wrote:If you have to download the codex you can't use the allies rule. I don't know if you can even buy new copies of the WH dex anymore. Eldar with their stones of warding should really really hamper the GK book.

Not being able to use your psychic powers for fear of killing your squad leaders is quite a damper on GK, though in the game I played against mech eldar with GK his runes didn't stop me from getting almost double the kill points he scored.

It's totally impossible to say what would 'counter' GK as GK armies can be built in so many ways. For example, scout shunting DK lists have very few things in common with Coteaz mech gunlines.

Of course mech IG with a WH Inquisitor with hood will do better against GK than a mech IG army without it. The 5+ to dispel just isn't a difference big enough to really make the army a 'counter' of any sort.

GK may have a unique flavor of elite army-ness, but it's still an elite army, and so still suffers from the same thing that deathwing armies and nob armies suffer from.

Too many plasma, or too many regular attacks will make them fail their saves, and each casualty is precious. If you can take down blood angels, or a loganwing, or whatever, you can take out the new GK.

Therion wrote:It's totally impossible to say what would 'counter' GK as GK armies can be built in so many ways. For example, scout shunting DK lists have very few things in common with Coteaz mech gunlines.

Of course mech IG with a WH Inquisitor with hood will do better against GK than a mech IG army without it. The 5+ to dispel just isn't a difference big enough to really make the army a 'counter' of any sort.

Ok, I have to ask this: Where is all the talk of allying WH Inquisition with IG as a counter to GK coming from?

I certainly did not suggest it nor is it what I intended this thread to be about. I am talking about 'pure' WH Inquisition, not SoB, not with IG or any allies. I mean Inquisitor Lord, Inquisitors, IST, geared up and tooled up with anti-Psyker wargear and powers from C:WH only. Things like "Hammer of the Witches," Bolter-stake Crossbows, Power Stakes, and so on. With a GK force, not DH lead by Coteaz, primarily consisting of Psykers, I am presenting the idea that WH Inquisition, and only WH Inquisition, could be a very viable counter to GK army. I don't think I can make this any more clear.

doubled wrote:If you have to download the codex you can't use the allies rule. I don't know if you can even buy new copies of the WH dex anymore. Eldar with their stones of warding should really really hamper the GK book.

Which is why we have the Vindicare.

Which is why I will be taking Cotez henchmen as my primary troops.

GK units are amazing, but it looks like when counters appear, they will hit this army especially hard. Thats why I like cheap generalists like the henchmen. I see your fancy counter move to my purifiers and raise you a cheaper version of my own.

Give every model who can take one a bolter stake crossbow

Die of laughing when you play against GK

Eldar do have an excellent matchup against GKs.

Vindicare is scary and all, but remember that farseer will invariably be hiding in a wave serpent, so that will probably buy the seer an extra turn of survivability. Also remember that the Energy Field on the Wave Serpent limits the Vindi to 3+d6 and no rending against the wave serpents front armor.
And with all the psychic powers GK can be casting- 37% perils will take its toll quickly, even if only for a couple of turns.
Remember that because of the specific way GKs are set up, lots of anti psycher gear, and lots of psychic powers of their own, the farseer is going to hunker down and hide from Vindicares as long as he possibly can. This means ducking out of line of sight and cowering in a corner. Warding has unlimited range, and will be a pain in the neck for most GK players.

The biggest logistical problem Eldar have are psyflemen Dreads. I'm pretty sure you don't need to take a psychic test to use psybolt ammo, and mass tl s8 weapons are pretty much the bane of a Wave Serpent's existence, as the Energy Field does nothing to protect them. Regular riflemen were scary enough for wave serpents. These new bad boys will tear them asunder. Their ability to walk 6 inches to get better lines of sights also makes them a problem. If an Eldar player can't get rid of them quickly, they will take a fearsome toll on our tanks.
Eldar do however, thanks to the farseer have less to worry about from fortitude. 50% failure and 37% glance is somewhat comforting.

TheRedArmy wrote:

xlightscreen wrote:Death strike missile launchers, they solve everything.

(Laughs)

I concur though, WH should be able to be decent against GK, except that they're all T3 so those improved Storm Bolters are gonna be wounding on 2+ - even power armor can only do so much. Not to mention they don't have much to counter terminators and the like.

So high volume of divine guidance bolter fire + DG flamers + melta doesn't handle termies? The point difference between GKs and sisters means the sisters will be outnumbering GKs 2 to 1. GKs are king of the 12.1 - 24 inch range band, sisters own the 1-12 inch range band. Lack of long range fire means that a immo spam or rhino rush sisters army is going to make it relatively intact into their preferred range band. GKs prowess in CC is a bit wasted on sisters, seeing as they are so cheap per model, and sisters can choose to tarpit GKs in CC if the GKS fail to wipe (book of st Lucius).

I don't think that WH have to devolve to list hosing to have a good matchup against GKs, 5+ save vs targeted powers, spammed BS 4 power armor + the best special weapons (flamers that can rend, and meltas) means the girls can hold their own without resorting to the silly stuff.

EmilCrane wrote:Give every model who can take one a bolter stake crossbow

Die of laughing when you play against GK

Sounds good to me. If I ever face Dreadknights, I'm fielding a Deathstrike or a Bastion Breacher squadron. I don't even care what else they hit.

I think grey knights are going to suffer from shiny syndrome. Shiny syndrome quiet simply is there are so many neat and theoretically awesome things that people at the start will take to many and not have enough substance in their army to win tough games. The other thing that will happen is one or 2 good internet lists will pop up and people will accept them as gospel without any kind of playtesting. We can make some generalizations, like the only way you will see large numbers of GK is with Cortez and henchmen, purifiers will beat hordes in combat ect ect. I think every codex will have an answer to help compete with grey knights, and I don't think GK are going to be easy at all to play at tourny levels. Time will tell but hard counters against the book won't be discovered until everyone has access to the new book and plays for or against GK and misconceptions can be gotten rid of. Look at Alaros, he put up like 30 well written battle reports with his Blob guard lists at varying points and missions win or lose. These games he played and shared win or lose showed me some things I had previously thought of in the guard codex as false, or slightly miss thought. It also showed evidence that some things I thought were absolutely true. Until we all get GK armies on the table and play against or with them, we won't really know what works.