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Made in us
Sinister Chaos Marine





Norfolk, VA

hey guys its been close to 6 six years since I played in a 40k Tournament. I plan on playing in one next month and wanted to get some feedback on my list.

HQ- Chaos Lord- Mk Khorne, Daemon weapon, jump pack- 160pts
HQ- Daemon Prince- mk khorne, wings -140pts
EL- Dreadnought multi melta - 100pts
EL- Dreadnought Multi melta- 100pts
EL- Dreadnought ccw -100pts
TR- 10 CSM melta/flamer, glory of chaos, Champ combi melta, p.fist
Rhino w/daemonic possession -280pts
TR- 10 CSM melta/flamer, glory of chaos, Champ combi melta, p.fist
Rhino w/daemonic possession -280pts
TR- 10 CSM melta/flamer, glory of chaos, Champ combi melta, p.fist
Rhino w/daemonic possession -280pts
FA- 5 Raptors. chaos Glory, Champ with pfist. - 150 pts
HVY- Vindicator -125pts
HVY- Defiler -150pts
HVY- Predator twin las & HB 135pts.
Total 2000pts, 15 Kill points

While I am not under any illusions I will actually win the tournament overall. I would like an army that will not get tabled early on and will provide both me and my opponent with enjoyable games.
thanks in advance for feedback.



This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/03/21 02:45:29


It is easier to extinguish the light within, than to dispell the darkness that surrounds without
DR:70S+++G+++M++B+++I+Pw40k88/f#-D+++A++++/fWD120R++++T(Pic)DM+

 
   
Made in us
Strangely Beautiful Daemonette of Slaanesh





Looks like you spent a lot of points on upgrades that you didn't have to...but it might be fun to play. Probably going to go out like an elite army, so if you mess up, it's going to cost you...and a squad of 4 raptors? What? Why? o.0

 
   
Made in us
Sinister Chaos Marine





Norfolk, VA

Edited to change #'s on the squad.

What upgrades are you referring to? I was iffy on the Vehicle possession but there is nothing I hate more than having a vehicle stunned while troops are waiting to be moved. Extra armor is 15 points.. I figure for another 5.. why not go with possession?

the idea behind the raptors is to accompany the CL so he doesn't get caught "in the open" so to speak.


It is easier to extinguish the light within, than to dispell the darkness that surrounds without
DR:70S+++G+++M++B+++I+Pw40k88/f#-D+++A++++/fWD120R++++T(Pic)DM+

 
   
Made in us
Abhorrent Grotesque Aberration





Connecticut, USA

Don't mix special Weapons in your Squads either go 2 double flamer/combi flamer squads, and 1 double melta, combi melta squad. Or the reverse. The raptors and lord will get shot up for an easy 2 KP's.
   
Made in us
Strangely Beautiful Daemonette of Slaanesh





You shouldn't take Raptors in squads of less than 10, or dissapointment will ensue.

 
   
Made in us
Sinewy Scourge






My advice will apply to things that I think you could change easily. I understand not wanting to overhaul everything.

HQ- Chaos Lord- Mk Khorne, Daemon weapon, jump pack- 160pts
HQ- Daemon Prince- mk khorne, wings -140pts


I don't like either of these. The Lord with a Khorne Daemon weapon is for fun only (and the "fun" part is debatable). A huge chance to hurt himself and do nothing equals a bad character. If you are set on Khorne go with lightening claws. The DP would be better served as unmarked with warptime. Sad but true.

EL- Dreadnought multi melta - 100pts
EL- Dreadnought Multi melta- 100pts
EL- Dreadnought ccw -100pts


I don't like Chaos Dreds. I've tried them and had some major issues with them. Even under the favorable interpretation of fire frenzy, you will statistically have 1 dread doing something that you do not control every turn. I'd drop these fast.

TR- 10 CSM melta/flamer, glory of chaos, Champ combi melta, p.fist
Rhino w/daemonic possession -280pts
TR- 10 CSM melta/flamer, glory of chaos, Champ combi melta, p.fist
Rhino w/daemonic possession -280pts
TR- 10 CSM melta/flamer, glory of chaos, Champ combi melta, p.fist
Rhino w/daemonic possession -280pts


This isn't bad. I would never mix the weapons. I also don't particularly like flamers on squads. I'd take two units of 2x melta and 1 of 2x plasma. Drop the Daemonic Possession. Too many points on a Rhino.

FA- 5 Raptors. chaos Glory, Champ with pfist. - 150 pts


I would take more of these if you are planning on running the Lord with them. Two meltas as well.

HVY- Vindicator -125pts
HVY- Defiler -150pts
HVY- Predator twin las & HB 135pts.


Lots of issues here. No Daemonic Possession on the Vindi? This is the one "must possess" vehicle you have. I don't love Defilers and really don't like just one. I think the Vindi accomplishes a similar role but better. The Predator is simply confused. Either take Autocannon and 2x Heavy Bolters or Autocannon and 2x lascannons. I would always take the latter because of the fact that CSM need long range tank popping. I just don't get spending on the twin linked lascannon and am boggled by the pairing with heavy bolters.

Overall, I think you need to shave off some of the fat and re-allocate. More Raptors and adding Obliterators would be where I'd suggest to go. At the very least I'd make the above changes.

2nd Place 2015 ATC--Team 48
6th Place 2014 ATC--team Ziggy Wardust and the Hammers from Mars
3rd Place 2013 ATC--team Quality Control
7-1 at 2013 Nova Open (winner of bracket 4)
 
   
Made in ca
Bloodthirsty Chaos Knight




your daemonic possesion needs to go from your rhinos to your heavy support.






 
   
Made in us
Mysterious Techpriest







When you're done trimming, make sure that Lord has more than five Raptors to support him; otherwise, he's just going to go down to shooting before he can do much.

DQ:90S++G+M++B++I+Pw40k04+D++++A++/areWD-R+++T(M)DM+

2800pts Dark Angels
2000pts Adeptus Mechanicus
1850pts Imperial Guard
 
   
Made in us
Sinister Chaos Marine





Norfolk, VA

@ JGrand, thanks very helpful comments, picked up on a few areas I missed. Mainly the fire support pred, for some reason I was thinking the twin LC/HB spread was cheaper. the AC/LC set up is much better and will accomplish the role much better.

the Lord with MoK will get down graded to LC, the idea of +12 deamon weapon attacks sounds fun but the way I roll I would see more 1's and wound myself.
and the DP with Warptime makes too much sense. I am fairly old school in my devotion to Khorne I think.

I do not like the idea of combining like weapons in my csm squads, with out fail I always have my melta gun squad end up in a place where they are surrounded by infantry, and the flamer/plas squads facing armor. By mixing the squad load out I can assure that they are tactically flexible, if not tactically optimal. I have a game planned for Tuesday I will tryout your suggestion.

Thanks for input

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/03/21 04:44:48


It is easier to extinguish the light within, than to dispell the darkness that surrounds without
DR:70S+++G+++M++B+++I+Pw40k88/f#-D+++A++++/fWD120R++++T(Pic)DM+

 
   
Made in us
Sinister Chaos Marine





Norfolk, VA

So I played a battle today using the revised list.
HQ Chaos Lord MoK, LC, JP
HQ Daemon Prince, wings , warptime
Elite Dreadnaught multimelta
Elite Dreadnaught multimelta
Elite Dreadnaught 2x CCW
Troop- 10 CSM, Rhino, meltagun, flamer, champ, combi-melta, p.fist
Troop- 10 CSM, Rhino, meltagun, flamer, champ, combi-melta, p.fist
Troop- 10 CSM, Rhino, meltagun, flamer, champ, combi-melta, p.fist
FA- 5 Raptors, champ, p.fist
Hvy- Predator AC+LC
Hvy- Vindicator possessed
Hvy- Defiler

My opponent fields a massive ork horde wasn’t sure exactly what was in the list before we began play but it consisted of 198 orks and two vehicles!

We played a mission straight out of the rule book, rolling up Annihilation, with Spearhead setup.
I won the roll to deploy/go first.

My deployment. I deployed a solid wall of walkers on the left. Backed by the DP with lord and raptors.
The Rhinos and vindicator on the right to act as a kinda swing. With the Predator in the center acting as a firebase and anchor.

My opponents deployment. Not sure what things are at this point. Looks like a lot of orks to take out for a kill point mission.

Neither of us leave anything in reserve, and he fails to seize the initiative so I take the first turn. I move everything up, I immobilize my lead rhino in the building. Halting my swing advance. My predator fires and shakes the central looted tank.. The dreadnaughts .. One rages, one acts as normal and the CC dred fire frenzies killing a raptor. (I had placed the raptors there to be the closest targets to the dreds to absorb any accidents). My defiler fires at the other looted wagon and deviates by 9“! I forgo shooting with the immobile rhino in an attempt to repair.. I fail.

Ork turn 1. Sees a lot of orks on the run. Tank busta boyz and an ignorant amout of rockets let fly, over 18 rockets leave the ork ranks and skew all over the place. The two lead dreadnaughts take the brunt of the attack. Leaving one stunned and another exploded.

My turn Two: I move up boldly with deamon prince raptors and Chaos Lord. The CC dread and defiler coming up quickly behind them, I move the csm squad in rhino to support any lingering assaults next turn.
On the right side I inch the CSM squad in mobile rhino up a bit. Move the vindicator into a nice firing position. Shooting sees my predator explode the central looted wagon, the vindicator blasts a huge chunk out of the closest ork mob. I think about fleeting the defiler.. But opt to fire it at the far looted wagon instead… shot deviates by 7” I roll to repair the rhino again and it is a success!
The assault phase sees the DP, raptors, and lord clear out the tank bustas and a nobs mob out of the building.
Leaving them surrounded by 4 mobs of 30 orks each.

Ork turn 2: 3 mobs of Orks advance on the building held by chaos. A fourth mob runs, the looted wagon fires at the defiler, resulting in a crew stunned. Good thing defilers are possessed. Some rockets fly out and bang against the hull of my predator. 3 mobs of orks open fire on my DP. 97 dice are thrown, sluggas, rockets, and big shootas let loose. End result is 3 failed saves for the DP. Leaving only one wound remaining. The mobs assault dragging the DP down, but not before he can put 2 wounds on the ork war boss.

My turn 3: I jump the raptors and lord out of the building to engage an ork mob, I move two dreads up to hopefully clear the building. Defiler moves up and fires at an ork mob advancing on my swing rhinos. The predator moves to line up a better shot at the remaining looted wagon, firing its auto cannon into the same mob as the defiler. Killing 2 more. Two csm squads deploy and lay waste to the lead ork mob on the right. Add in the vindicator fire and only the Nob remains with a single wound left.

In the assault phase lord and raptors charge into a fresh mob of boyz, killing 5, losing none in return, fearless armor saves see another 5 orks die. The dreds charge into the building only one makes it in. Face to face with the ork war boss! The dreadnaught crushes the war boss, winning the combat by 1, another ork dies to fearless armor save.

Ork turn 3: opponent is kinda disheartened at this point. But he moves up more. Charges my disembarked marines on the right, charges a fresh mob into the chaos lord and his raptor bodyguard. The looted wagon fires at the defiler again missing it.
Assaults see the lord and his raptors beaten in combat. Result: the raptors die to fearless saves and the lord takes a wound. The dread wins in the building by 3 losing another 3 to fearless saves. Orks on the right side kill two marines losing 4 orks.
On turn 4. The defiler moves up and fleets to support the assault in the building. The CC dred charges into combat to help the now solo chaos lord. Predator fires blowing up looted wagon. Vindicator kills ten orks from the only unengaged ork mob. The unengaged csm squad on the right charge and help out in combat. Winning by 8. The orks now numbering only 9 fail their check and are cut down by the marines. Dread & defiler win the building by 7, 7 more dying to failed fearless saves. The cc dred and chaos lord cut down 8, resulting in 7 more dead from fearless saves. Things look very ugly for orks.

Ork turn 4.. Unengaged mob top center launches rockets at csm.. Miss. More orks are ground down in HtH. We call it at this point as neither of us are having much fun.

End result kill points.
Iron Warriors 7
Orks 3



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Looking at the battle, I would surely take out the defiler in favor of another possessed vindicator. and use the left over points to put a melta in with the raptors.

but all in all I do not think my game today was a good practice run, his army lacked any sort of real threat. I told him I was preparing for a 2k tournament. he asked me what he should bring and I replied "some thing competitive". which I feel this army was not.

We discussed things afterwards and his plan was to have more miniatures than an opponent could shoot. With the majority of his casualties coming from close combat I think he went wrong somewhere.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/03/24 00:42:32


It is easier to extinguish the light within, than to dispell the darkness that surrounds without
DR:70S+++G+++M++B+++I+Pw40k88/f#-D+++A++++/fWD120R++++T(Pic)DM+

 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

Good report! Cool to see someone coming back from back in the day. I remember all the Iron Warrior armies we used to see back in 3rd.

I was going to give you most of the same advice JGrand and others did. Though I like Dreads and find them cost effective, if a bit unpredictable.

Ork footslogging horde is iffy in the current environment. It can be quite strong against many armies, especially in Annigilation, if built & played right. He clearly made a substantial number of errors both in his build and during the game. There's no way you should have been able to assault any smaller, more fragile units like the tankbustas without getting stuck into the big mobs first. When I saw the matchup I thought this was going to be a difficult game for you, as you have several relatively easy-to-get KPs (transports, Dreads), and he has very few easy ones.

Also- at one point you said your Raptors lost in combat and took No Retreat wounds from being Fearless. That's not correct. They're not Fearless.

Very cool report, though. Definitely keep asking questions and keep us updated!

Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
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Maelstrom's Edge! 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents

OP:

There's a link in my signature called "Tournament Survival Guide."

It would make very good reading for you on how to prepare for a tournament, what to keep in mind, what to do *at* the tournament......not so much focused around how to win, but how to make it an enjoyable experience for both you and your opponent, cover all your bases, etc.

Give it a read.

   
Made in us
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

I'll second that, actually. I initially thought of Dash's guide when I read your thread title, then saw the actual thread was about your army list and battle report.

Still, that tournament guide article is really very good.

Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.

Maelstrom's Edge! 
   
Made in us
Sinister Chaos Marine





Norfolk, VA

@ Mannahnin, thanks for pointing out the raptors were not fearless. I had assumed that because the lord was attached to them that they would take on his fearless rule. I re-read the rule and apparently I had it backwards.

@Dashofpepper, thanks for the guide, awesome.

It is easier to extinguish the light within, than to dispell the darkness that surrounds without
DR:70S+++G+++M++B+++I+Pw40k88/f#-D+++A++++/fWD120R++++T(Pic)DM+

 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Multimelta dreds and a khorne daemon weapon. i like a man who lives life on the edge! (Even if not for very long..)

The advise the others have given is pretty solid, Id say change Dreds load out to ML and drop the pred for another vind or oblits for some long range AT which is a little lacking here.
Looks like your about 100pts shy of 2k in ur new list?

Good to see someone giving raptors love for a change
   
 
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