Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So yeah, my dad has fallen on hard times (economically), so I have decided to try and make some money from the hobby by making an selling terrain/ converted tanks etc. (fx. nurgle tank with leds) and wanted to know if anyone here had tried this before? Any tips? Are there some legal stuff that you have to do? If so please xplain or give a link Thanks in advance!

Tehbarry

EDIT: Forgot to say that I'm sorry if I'm not allowed to post this here, and won't do it again if not allowed

If you really need the money ebay has worked wonders for me when I need some dough, I personally would much rather buy something from a person who needs the money than GW, and Im sure others would feel the same.

Good Luck

Thanks bloodjunkey And I have considered ebay, but the problem is that you can only be paid with ebay, which wouldn't work very well since my dad had to switch banks, and so he doesn't have a credit card.... But your advice is appreciated

I'm just getting set up at the moment. So I'll hand you my thoughts.

It's difficult. Take the number of people in the hobby and dived that by several thousand. That gives you the number of people with enough disposable income to buy into what you're doing. Divide that again, and that's the amount of people inclined to commission!

So, you've got this group of people who would probably buy what you're selling. The problem is, they'e all over the planet. How best to get through to them all? Webiste! Blog! Great, you've got a place to show off your work, explain about yourself and introduce people to the concept of commissions. Only problem is, no one can see it, no one's heard of you. What do you do? You trawl some boards, head down to some shows or conventions, get the product out there so people can see it.

Problem is, you need to really push that. You need to get as many people aware of your site and service as possible. It' hard. You've really got to whore yourself! Travel to shows and conventions is pricey, and a gamble. You might get great reception, but if no one's buying, you're down on the price of getting to that show.

What I'm learning at the moment is that I need to have some quality work to show and a place to show it. I've got to dial down my grumpy persona on the boards I post on as no one wants to do business with a guy they think is an asshat. I'm also going to have to spend. A LOT. Just to get me started, I've had to buy some real gear, double up on my paints and stock a good range. I've had to set up some new accounts with the bank to keep business and personal finance separate (for the good of both) and in the UK, I'm having to register as self employed, which means STAMP DUTY! YAY! Legislation may be different for you though.

I also needed a real place to store everything, make sure it's safe, and I've also taken out a personal insurance policy. My studio is on my home premises, but if I ever needed to make an insurance claim for commission stuff, I don't want it to affect me or my wife at home.

Having a few friends who run businesses (one's a seamstress, the other runs his own music studios) also helps for things like keeping ordered accounts, and keeping track of your work properly.

Here's a list of what it's taken to get me started.

1. New bank account for business
2. New paypal account and verification
3. New account with courier for overnighting and emergencies
4. New gear. A lot of new gear. Top end brushes, entire paint sets, new compressor and airbrushes, new pallettes, new scenic materials, new working materials. Packing materials and shipping boxes.
5.Website knocked up yet to launch
6. Registered on as many mini wargaming boards as possible, along with other artistry boards.
7. Outside work on other mediums, oil on canvass etc for practice
8.Building up a portfolio for gallery before launching the site
9. Local commissions to get a feel for working to commission spec.
10. Finding time for family and wife. Luckily my wife is mega supportive, and has been trying to get me to do arty stuff for a living for 4 years now.
11. Study Study Study - techniques opinions, peoples preferences.

Lots and lots and I'm still starting. I however tend to over-think things, I take a lot of what I do very seriously, because art is important to me, as is my ability to contribute to the household income!

Don't just rush in, and try not to get frustrated if uptake is slow. If you're good, people will seek you out.

Best of luck.

WOW. Thanks a lot Phayse! Those are some really good tips and good luck to you too on starting a business! But I have one other question, would I still be allowed to do it if I am under 18? Since I have loads if free time, I thought it could be nice to help out my dad, and it wouldn't be that fun to see it go to waste due to my age...

Honestly, you are better off getting a job. I realize you are under 18 but you will probably make more money with a job at a mall or something like that. Also you should post some pics of your work.

I hope your dads situation turns around soon. Whatever you do goos luck.

Thanks, and yeah, I don't really have anything to showcase, as I've been selling (and waiting for the rest of it to arrive from my uncle, who I asked to keep it for a while as it was taking far too much space) my high elf army, so i can start in 40k... And getting a job is certainly an idea, but there aren't many other job options besides newspaper delivery until I'm 16, and I need that time for school stuff/homework.

tehbarry wrote:Thanks, and yeah, I don't really have anything to showcase, as I've been selling (and waiting for the rest of it to arrive from my uncle, who I asked to keep it for a while as it was taking far too much space) my high elf army, so i can start in 40k... And getting a job is certainly an idea, but there aren't many other job options besides newspaper delivery until I'm 16, and I need that time for school stuff/homework.

Depends on the state, I've had the equivalent of a full time job since I was 15 (25 now). The regulation in Virginia at least was that you couldn't work more than 20 hours a week and had to have parental permission. But, add in off the books jobs and you can make quite a chunk of change. That being said, ensure that you can balance it with your school work, long term is still more important than short term.

Ebay is alright, and I've done it at times in college to supplement my income, all you need is a paypal account (which then means a bank account as well) and an ebay account (and probably some sort of parental permission/vouch to be under 18 on ebay). However, realize that you have to be quite good at what you do, you have to get the mini's very cheap in order to turn a profit, and at the end of the day...you'll probably still bring in less cash than a minimum wage job, by a longshot typically (unless you're truly amazing and have a portfolio of work to help back you up, ie, golden daemon wins and the like).

Hard times are a function of not enough income and too much cash outflow. Also consider finding ways to help reduce your financial impact on the family, if you really want to help, this may be more manageable at your age. If it's acceptable to discuss finance in your family (for some it's a touchy subject) consider hinting/mentioning that they don't need to buy you xyz luxury items, or to forgo holiday/birthday gifts for the time being.

Edit: My trick that helped me turn a profit to provide spending money in college was to attack the "cost" side of the equation. Find good deals on bartertown/ebay for some truly POS models that you can tell are fixable. Get good at stripping and the like, and you can usually get these models at a steal. This way if you paint them and get retail price -> above retail, and you bought for say, 50% of less of retail, you can make a moderate profit.

For example, I once got 3 falcon hulls with 1 main turret for 10-15 dollars shipped. The models were damaged, had about 10 coats of paint (not all acrylic), had googly eye gems/craft store items glued to them, and 2 were missing the turrets. The two missing turrets I built plasticard (on the cheap, buy a for-sale sign for a dollar or two, it's identical material to plasticard, and is about 20 times cheaper) wave serpent turrets (this is prior to there being real wave serpent turrets outside of forgeworld). I ended up netting around 175-200 for the three of them once painted, after costs of materials/shipping/ebay.

Ive been slowly ebaying stuff and making some profit.

at the end of this month ebay is going to let you list things for free, which means it wont cost you anything unless you sell, this is nice.

the real trick is, to not rely on selling anything, ebay makes no sense, I listed my tyranid swarm like 4 times with zero bids then all in a sudden it was buy-it-nowed for like twice as much.

The single most important thing to obtain is a camera that can take good photos of what you're selling, and some photo-quality lighting.

You need to be able to put up photos that show off your work. Cell-phone pictures do not suffice. Assuming that you have the skill to build/paint the items in question, a good photo will generate significantly more return than an average one.

Thanks, those are some good ideas, alas I don't live in the states. I will definitely try and have a discussion with my dad about trying to saving. Thanks

Another way to go about it, works for me, is to make a bunch of generic pieces and take them to a convention to sell in their dealer area or flea market.
But if it doesn't look great it won't sell.

Theres a thread in discussions titled "Gak" which has a chap also starting a terrain supply business. I would suggest theat you take a look there at some of the less that impressed but nontheless constructive comments he has received.

My personal tip would also be to get a job. Paper round is a good start. I used to wash cars which was good for £20-30 per saturday morning when I was 12-13 (target middle class professionals they are the laziest and companies with allot of vans, rich people hang on to their money so you might want to avoid them!). Farms are also quite good for picking up odd jobs on I found.

Anyhoo good luck mate.

Thanks for the advice, and I'll definitely search for that thread. I can't really wash cars or deal out newspapers, since all of them are already taken...

If you want to sell terrain that you made yourself, you are legally in the clear if it isn't identifiable as 40K. Ie - no Space Marines insignias on buildings, and so on. If you want to try this business, I'd suggest making one nice terrain piece and then showcase it in the Swap Shop on Dakka. If your work is good, it may sell.

Things to keep track of:

1) how many hours did it take to make one?
2) how much money did it cost you to make one (paint costs money, too, so does primer)
3) how much money will it cost to ship it? Gas to the Post Office needs to be factored in, and the same for shipping materials.

All this said, if you can make something in a reasonable amount of time at a reasonable cost, go for it. Nothing to lose by trying it out. Start small so that if it doesn't work out, you will not have spent too much money on the effort.

Also, take pictures of everything you make and keep them. Someone might be willing to pay you first to build something if they see a pic of something awesome you did before.

If you really want to do terrain, maybe look at trying to bootstrap into something that is less time-intensive than one-offs.

Selling one-off pieces is a pain. You have to spend time marketing each one, and each one takes a long time to build, paint, etc. Barring commission work, expect a lot of peices sitting around.

A lot of people, like myself, are unlikely to buy finished terrain as we think we can do better. We probably can't, but that's besides the point. Premade terrain is unlikely to match our specifications: I'd like it to fit in with other pieces, even little stuff like basing material won't match, etc.

On the other hand, if you have time to do research and some talent at sculpting/scratchbuidling, you might be able to set a goal of building a small resin shop. I do occasionally buy stuff like that (although as a disclaimer, I'm weird.) as I can customize it and make it fit what I want. Additionally, you make the base model, make molds (which isn't easy...) and paint 1 to photograph for sale, then sell castings as quick as you can.

The trick is finding a niche that you can get into and do at a price that covers your costs, and resin production isn't cheap to get into.

Solorg wrote:If you want to sell terrain that you made yourself, you are legally in the clear if it isn't identifiable as 40K. Ie - no Space Marines insignias on buildings, and so on.

Does that mean I can't sell nurgle tanks? Or paint ork symbols on my terrain? OH THE HORROR!!!! *lies down in fetal position, rocking back and forth* (just joking, but the questions were serious...)

tehbarry wrote:

Solorg wrote:If you want to sell terrain that you made yourself, you are legally in the clear if it isn't identifiable as 40K. Ie - no Space Marines insignias on buildings, and so on.

Does that mean I can't sell nurgle tanks? Or paint ork symbols on my terrain? OH THE HORROR!!!! *lies down in fetal position, rocking back and forth* (just joking, but the questions were serious...)

Yea, if you're selling it, it's a good idea to stay away from using their trademarked logo's and insignias. That being said, you can make something look "orky" or "nurgly" without actually slapping the symbol for nurgle or the ork glyph on it.

Ok, thanks, I was worrried for a sec there. But would that mean that if I used one of their tanks, and then heavily converted it into a nurgle tank, would I not be allowed to sell it on ebay?

tehbarry wrote:Ok, thanks, I was worrried for a sec there. But would that mean that if I used one of their tanks, and then heavily converted it into a nurgle tank, would I not be allowed to sell it on ebay?

It's a fine line, you can resell something you bought and converted, that happens all the time. But if you make an actual business out of it and start selling a good bit of volume or recasting the GW pieces to use in future reproductions of the item, you'll likely be told to stop. One-off's are typically okay, mass produced is a no no.

Ok thanks a million Any other tips are welcome! cheese for all who give tips

Honestly, IMO this isn't the economy to be "selling", it's the economy to be "buying" since a lot of people are in your position of hard times and getting to the desperate side of things.

I know, but if I were to buy more, then it would just put more economical stress on my dad....