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On the card it says "...place any number of fury points on or remove any number of fury points from it" Now, is this fury that's being put on it coming from no where or is it coming from my Warlock?

Additionally, only one Beast Manipulation special action can be placed on a beast a turn. Does this mean that if I spread my Paingivers out so that they are within range of multiple War Beasts I can use a Beast Manipulation for each member of the unit? These are *(star) actions, so I'm unsure.

Any help is appreciated

Place or remove means exactly that. Fury is placed or removed from the beast.

They don't come or go anywhere.

As for the second question, yes. And what's even more gross is that I think they
can each perform a separate Beast Manipulation action.

malfred wrote:Place or remove means exactly that. Fury is placed or removed from the beast.

They don't come or go anywhere.

As for the second question, yes. And what's even more gross is that I think they
can each perform a separate Beast Manipulation action.

Thank you for the clarifications

So then, a unit of 5 Paingivers can have each member of the unit use a Beast Manipulation? I think I just developed a new love for this unit.

Yup. It's like the choir, only more versatile.

malfred wrote:Yup. It's like the choir, only more versatile.

Much thanks These are now going to be in nearly every one of my lists.

If you play skorne, they probably should be. Pain givers are incredibly versatile. Don't be afraid to frenzy your own warbeast as long as your can go up against an opponents warbeast.

Also its always beneficial to heal / buff your models. I'm sure you'll come across the Cyclops missile at some time.

njpc wrote:If you play skorne, they probably should be. Pain givers are incredibly versatile. Don't be afraid to frenzy your own warbeast as long as your can go up against an opponents warbeast.

Also its always beneficial to heal / buff your models. I'm sure you'll come across the Cyclops missile at some time.

I'm not worried about frenzying these beasties Crash 'em into the enemy line and let 'em go nuts!

I am planning on maxing out to two squads of Pain Givers.

Frenzy isn't as good as it used to be. However, if your fury
output is going to put you at risk I say you might as well go for
broke.

Schnitzel wrote:
I am planning on maxing out to two squads of Pain Givers.

2 may be overkill. 1 max unit usually is enough from my experience.

With choir you can go 1 max for 3 points or 2 min squads for 4. I assume it's the same
with paingivers.

Here's another question on these guys: Does the command range matter? Or can they use their abilities despite it?

And thinking about it, two maxed squads is a bit over kill, especially considering that a beast can only be hit by a beast manipulation once.

CMD range will limit how far away they can operate from each other.

I'd check the card to see if it affects Beast Manipulation, or if there's a stated range.

For Choir the RNG of the chant is 3" , iirc.

Beat handlers min is 4 guys (2pts), max is 6 guys (3 pts).

Their abilities are *actions with a 3 inch range. So yes Command Range matters...they are a unit after all.

Right, but CMD range doesn't affect the actual distance of the Beast Manipulation of itself.

It DOES affect how far away from the unit leader the Pain Giver can get.

So CMD affects Beast Manipulation in an indirect way.

Ya sorry that wasn't clear in my post.

They can be spread out effectively especially at lower points games.

I am a MENOTH and Mercs player, who just got into Skorne. A buddy of mine said they are like a mix between Khador and Menoth... SOOOO TRUE! I'm loving the paingiver's!

And for the purposes of fluff, the fury comes from the beast handler whipping the beast into greater fury while under the extra control of a beast trainer with a whip to keep them in line. But in game terms, it is free fury! That is a way to push all your beasts beyond their warlocks normal capacity, then clean of excess fury with the beast handlers before the turn ends (i.e. any amount in excess of what your Warlock can reave next turn) and you have to make a threshold check next turn.

And Frenzy Sucks! I mean it's not terrible, you do get a single attack, a power attack if the card states it like on the titan gladiator with boosted attack and damge roles... that's nice. But only if it's a one attack beast with a low fury, because if it has two attacks or 3+ fury, you are giving up alot of possible damage when you let your beast Frenzy, especially since alot of beast's will have to forfeit more powerful special attacks! Really if the beast has a good chance of hitting without a boost, you are giving up alot more!

example: The Titan Gladiator-- If frenzied, he's bullheaded, so he has to make a slam power attack with P+S 15... and 3 dice for damage... that is nice.
But it sucks compared to no frenzy. He normally has 3 very effective attacks and four fury to use for extra attacks if he can hit w/o boosting, he can get 7 High P+S attacks, 3 with his left war gauntlet P+S 16+2d6, with the right war gauntlet 3 more P+S 16+2d6 hits, and a P+S 15 hit from the tusks. That's alot more damage that you are giving up just because you frenzied your WB!

Here's another question for you guys, I think I know the answer, but I'd love to hear some other inputs here.

Under Beast Manipulation it says "A warbeast can be affected by only one Beast Manipulation special action each turn."

Now that's pretty cut and dry. My question though, is if I had two units of Pain Givers, can they dish out another Beast Manipulation on a beast that's already been hit with Manipulation? As in, the One Manipulation is limited by the number of squads of Pain Givers? Or am I reaching for something that isn't there?

Thanks!

Nope. If it were one per squad, the card would say one per squad.

One Beast Manipulation, period.

malfred wrote:Nope. If it were one per squad, the card would say one per squad.

One Beast Manipulation, period.

As I had thought. A bit disappointing, but definitely understandable.

Thanks

Yeah, for once, a game was designed with the idea that what it says is what it means, and the only exceptions to the rules are spelled out on the card, It's nice to know that it's not just some interpritation of the rules, but THE RULES! Easy, and concise.

One of the reasons I love this game! Another thing to consider, however, is that the beast handlers are not that bad in combat, either. At least, when compared to similar models like the choir and the Shepherd. My pMorghoul Tier list has 2 full squads, and I find their Anatomical precision to be pretty useful. Not really front line troops, like the Arcuarii, but for a 3 pt support unit, pretty good bang for the buck!

The paingivers are among the best speed bumbs in the game. Reach, anatomical precision and cheap cost mean that they are great in blocking charge paths. Their low MAT though means that they need a bit of help hitting and stuff like kayazys can ignore them completely.

True enough. They are perfect for holding up the enemy while the Big Boys get into position FTW.

Pmakeda makes them really shine, 3 points for 6 guys with reach anatomical precision and mat 7 yes please! Damn now I need to get another unit.

I don't run pMakeda, just the eVersion. However, I have been considering getting her, so I will definitely keep that in mind!

The fact that they're a support unit who can completely justify their point cost as such is great. Added in the occasional but amazing utility of reaching anatomical precision? Just ask anyone who uses living single-wound shield walls how they feel about it (I'm looking at you, flameguard/karax/gun corps/other examples I'm missing). They can also knock off 5-wound UAs fairly easily if you run all 6, and can even handle regular, non-living infantry pretty well on the charge. Who doesn't love having a choir of menoth that can (literally) whip the pants off certain enemy units?

For the record, eMakeda still makes them nasty; 13" charge out from their usual place behind the beasts, and therefore still swinging at effective MAT 7? Sounds grand!

I think they are one of the most mandatory units in the game right now. Heal, buff or control, yes please!