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Grey Knights in Friendly Games...
Hope that's not an oxymoron

I've been reading a lot of lists and tactics that feature specific lists probably for 'ard boyz styled tournament lists, including but not limited to psy-rifle-dread,coteaz henchman spam, purifier crowe spam, etc. I don't think any of these are fun and all of these go against the nature of 40k for fun and friendly play.

Now I'm not saying those sorts of armies aren't effective. My question is... is it a viable army route to build a hybrid of these winning styles and other more well rounded GK builds to build a fun and fair list? Or is a GK players only hope at standing up against a nid hoard/deamon heavy/all comers arena one of these cheese builds? I wouldn't mind taking one or two psybolt dreadnoughts and a few squads of coteaz henchman with some terminators and some grey knights in power armor. What are we looking at for these lists with a blend of chimeras and razorbacks and maybe a stormraven? Sprinkle in an assassin and does this start to seem like a viable list or is it destined to fail?

sure, why not.
The people that build spam lists are generally not top tier players anyway, taking tons of one thing just makes your army one dimensional.

I plan on running tons of henchmen covering a paladin deathstar as my "friendly" game army, as its rather fluffy and gives me plenty of use from my guard admech troops, as well as more time to convert normal knights

Friendly game builds:
Coteaz + Henchman as Rogue Trader + Co.: Each unit will have Specialist rolls, they are not likely to be small in number, nor points, not likely to have more than 4 identical units(grouped in 2s, or 2 pairs of the Same unit in the entire army, excepting transports if I use those).

Inquisitor Valeria + maybe 1 henchman unit + PAGK as Order Xenos strike force: PAGK as Deathwatch kill teams, Nemesis variant weapons as Xenos tech, Psycannons as HB W/suspensors and hellfire rounds. Henchmen will include 2 jokero, a psyker or 3(likely to be Xenos models), at least 2 acolytes as "overseers", possibly more.

I am not Likely to take any GK build to Tourney.

What's the definition of a "fun" list? One you can easily beat?

Maybe I'm from a different planet, (most probably actually) but the harder and cheesier a list is...the more I like to play against it.

The harder the challenge, the more fun the game. Bring your hardest list, more of a chance to learn something I would say.

If you bring something that ISNT hard and tough to beat...the the game is more 'unfun' to me.

YOUR fun is NOT your opponents responsibility, it it YOURS. The sooner you figure that out, the sooner you'll have more fun at this game when you DO run into someone with a very optimised list.

Learn to play better.

Grundz wrote:sure, why not.
The people that build spam lists are generally not top tier players anyway, taking tons of one thing just makes your army one dimensional.

Why even say this? It's quantitatively untrue for many different armies.

sourclams wrote:

Grundz wrote:sure, why not.
The people that build spam lists are generally not top tier players anyway, taking tons of one thing just makes your army one dimensional.

Why even say this? It's quantitatively untrue for many different armies.

didnt you just finish complaining about how your loginwing list would get mauled by GK?

Grundz wrote:

sourclams wrote:

Grundz wrote:sure, why not.
The people that build spam lists are generally not top tier players anyway, taking tons of one thing just makes your army one dimensional.

Why even say this? It's quantitatively untrue for many different armies.

didnt you just finish complaining about how your loginwing list would get mauled by GK?

Fine, then I, as a Black Templars player will say it: Why even say this? It's quantitatively untrue for many different armies.

See, I really don't understand the point of asking other people, who you will never play against, for a "fun" list of an army not even out yet.

Let's be clear about some stuff. Fun is subjective. What is fun for you may be boring or annoying to someone else. Two people may play the same game for completely different reasons and therefore get enjoyment out of two different things. Finally, the higher points of tactics and strategy (which is part of list building) is, by necessity, motivated by success. Therefore, the reason most people post lists on this forum are for strategic analysis, discussion over unit optimization, etc.

People don't post "fun" lists because of the first point, its subjective. Either make a "fun" list for yourself, or find out what your local group finds enjoyable to play against. The reason you see a lot tournament lists is because discussion helps these kinds of lists, it doesn't help fun lists. I find it ironic you are looking for a fun list, but still want to make sure it is "viable" and not "Destined to fail". So obviously having a chance at winning is important to you. However, you seem to find competitive lists un-fun and against the nature of 40k. This seems like two divergent ways of thinking to me, and will likely be difficult to reconcile.

All that being said, I will try to offer up a fun, diverse list that might still be able to win sometimes.

Ordo Malleus Inquisitor w/Termie Armour, Psycannon - 80
Grey Knight Brother Champion - 100


Inquisitorial Henchman Warband - 3xCrusader, 3xWarrior Acolyte w/Melta Gun, 3xDeathcult Assassin in Chimera - 159
Purifier Squad x10 w/ 4xPsycannon, 6x Halberd - 292
Vindicaire Assassin -145

Strike Squadx10 w/ 2xPsycannon in Rhino -260
Strike Squadx10 w/ 2xPsycannon in Rhino -260

Storm Raven w/TL-Multi Melta, TL-Lascannons - 205

Thats 1501, if anyone has an issue drop a halberd. The stormraven looks like more liability then useful, but at least you have decent anti-tank and a squad of purifiers to cut down a horde.

Grundz wrote:

sourclams wrote:

Grundz wrote:sure, why not.
The people that build spam lists are generally not top tier players anyway, taking tons of one thing just makes your army one dimensional.

Why even say this? It's quantitatively untrue for many different armies.

didnt you just finish complaining about how your loginwing list would get mauled by GK?

No. I think the last time I played Loganwing was at 'Ard Boyz last year. I've been doing Deathwing and Warmachine/Hordes ever since.

Although I think I am on record saying that GK, as part of a new Terminator-centric meta shift, can definitely help shake up the AP3-centric nature of many SW lists.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Fine, then I, as a Black Templars player will say it: Why even say this? It's quantitatively untrue for many different armies.

I apologize that I didnt equivocate hard enough so that the easily offended with fragile feelings didnt catch on.

Spamming statistically better units is a viable list building strategy, one that makes the assumption that blowing new players off the table in 3 turns gives you the ego boost that you need to justify playing with little toy men.

Some (most) players play less uncompetitively in smaller groups where driving everyone away from you with your douchebaggery is not the order of the day.
If you want to bring the standard of your local groups play to levels where everyone are running decent tourney lists, the point isnt to start running thunderwolves and 15 long fangs or whatever and hope they catch on, it would to be to run a weaker list and tune it a little each game, encouraging them to do the same.

I'm not looking to forward to seeing them on the tables, to be honest... Especially if people bring these outrageous spammy lists

My gaming groups are not your gaming groups.

My gaming experience is not your gaming experience.

Your brand of PHUN is no better than my brand of fun.

Thanks for all that replied with constructive ideas.


To everyone else: I may have insulted your idea of what is fun, but look how many people understood what I was asking and posted well rounded sample lists. Every thread in Dakka with GK in the title is not your place to continue a flame war and nobody cares if you take 'Ard Boyz tourneys too seriously. If your brand of fun is being a cheezy TFG than more power, but that's not what this thread is about, now is it?

tldr wrote: If your brand of fun is being a cheezy TFG than more power, but that's not what this thread is about, now is it?

When in a few months the most powerful GK lists are actually mixed forces incorporating several different kinds of GK and Inq units (i.e., NOT Draigo, 10 Paladins, and max Dread Knights), I hope you realize how stupid your statement actually is.

Come on people, show a little civility to one another. Take a breath and go get another soda/beer from the fridge or something.

sourclams wrote:
When in a few months the most powerful GK lists are actually mixed forces incorporating several different kinds of GK and Inq units (i.e., NOT Draigo, 10 Paladins, and max Dread Knights), I hope you realize how stupid your statement actually is.

You sound scared. Scared and fearful. My friends dont bring lists like that because who the hell wants to play against that? I feel you've missed the point of the thread entirely.

tldr wrote:

sourclams wrote:
When in a few months the most powerful GK lists are actually mixed forces incorporating several different kinds of GK and Inq units (i.e., NOT Draigo, 10 Paladins, and max Dread Knights), I hope you realize how stupid your statement actually is.

You sound scared. Scared and fearful. My friends dont bring lists like that because who the hell wants to play against that? I feel you've missed the point of the thread entirely.

Now that thats over, I would take some time looking over the inquisitor options, some of the wargear is pretty fun (i'm a big fan of the halucigen grenades)

besides that, there really aren't many fluff units like stormtroopers in the codex

sourclams wrote:When in a few months the most powerful GK lists are actually mixed forces incorporating several different kinds of GK and Inq units (i.e., NOT Draigo, 10 Paladins, and max Dread Knights)...

I would love it if this is the case.

Gornall wrote:

sourclams wrote:When in a few months the most powerful GK lists are actually mixed forces incorporating several different kinds of GK and Inq units (i.e., NOT Draigo, 10 Paladins, and max Dread Knights)...

I would love it if this is the case.

Me too.

Armies with lots of different units are more fun to play and to play against, and not just because they could be considered weaker. Spammy lists tend to be strong because they take something that is good and repeat it. If the enemy can deal with this then you have a decent game, and if they can't the game is over. It leads to a game that feels more like rock-paper-scissors than 40k with the metagame (list building) being more important than the game (on the table). True, some people take this as a challenge and have fun playing against 'Ard armies.... but for a game to be interesting and fun I like to see lots of different units, models, and play styles on the table.

-Myst

Deadshane1 wrote:The harder the challenge, the more fun the game. Bring your hardest list, more of a chance to learn something I would say.

If you bring something that ISNT hard and tough to beat...the the game is more 'unfun' to me.

I'm the same way, but to each his own.

If your opponent is not having fun because of your list, they either need to step up their game or find something else to enjoy about the hobby. People who complain about your list don't want to think deeply but also don't want to get curb stomped, it's kind of like asking someone to "go easy" on them. Sure there is a time and place for such things, but "going easy" is not synonymous with fun.

I always find these threads interesting. Even more so, the responses...

I, for one, relish the list-building aspect of 40k. As such, I love figuring out how to beat a particularly tough unit.

The problem I find is that many people really hate to break out of their "comfort zone" or change up their list. They just keep on losing to the same units because "Rhinos are boring" or "I'm trying to stick to mono-Slaanesh Demons".

I understand both issues. My list has a theme as well: MechVets. It's completely valid. lol.

If your friend whines about a unit you take, then I would not play him, or just beat him silly with the unit until he adapts.

Just my opinion on this stuff... happy trails.

I am by no means a badass tournament player. My first Grey Knights list will be decent at best, seriously mediocre, because I am going to start out with all Terminators. I've never done it before and the models look neat, so why not.

If I want to try to crush someone I'll stick with my Wolves....

I'm not sure I understand the question. How do I decide for you what constitutes a "fun" army? You seem to have some pretty strong ideas of that yourself?

Try:

Coteaz
60 Servitors.

Half of them will go idle every turn. I think it'd be pretty fun to play/play against.

Grundz wrote:
If you want to bring the standard of your local groups play to levels where everyone are running decent tourney lists, the point isnt to start running thunderwolves and 15 long fangs or whatever and hope they catch on, it would to be to run a weaker list and tune it a little each game, encouraging them to do the same.

Or you could just talk to eachother after the game and go over what worked well and what didn't, and give some constructive critisism? Besides, who's saying that the hypothetical "I" in this situation isn't on the same level as the rest of the group? "Friendly" doesn't have to mean "non-competitive". And I honestly don't see anyone arguing in favour of smashing new players to pieces with a good list, that you don't do such a thing goes without saying.

Finally, I just have to say that I feel that it's really low to have a jab at someone for their army and then go on to argue that the only reason to play a tournament list in a friendly game is to curbstomp noobs. It's frankly insulting to me and everyone else who does it, and I don't see why that kind of response would belong in a civilized discussion at all.

Manchu wrote:Come on people, show a little civility to one another. Take a breath and go get another soda/beer from the fridge or something.

Off Topic, someone please explain what soda means in other countries, because in Australia soda is this disgusting drink called mineral water.

On topic.

Unless your fighting against total noobs, it wont be hard to take a fairly fun list. I will perhaps have 1 DK and a 10 man terminator squad, 10 purifiers, a way to kitted out GM, and 10 interceptors in a 1500 list. It isnt crap, but it isnt super awesome own everything either. I will lose a lot of the time with it. But its fun.

Jaon wrote:

Manchu wrote:Come on people, show a little civility to one another. Take a breath and go get another soda/beer from the fridge or something.

Off Topic, someone please explain what soda means in other countries, because in Australia soda is this disgusting drink called mineral water.

On topic.

Unless your fighting against total noobs, it wont be hard to take a fairly fun list. I will perhaps have 1 DK and a 10 man terminator squad, 10 purifiers, a way to kitted out GM, and 10 interceptors in a 1500 list. It isnt crap, but it isnt super awesome own everything either. I will lose a lot of the time with it. But its fun.

its like lemonade or coke stuff like that

and armies need to be tough because when you come up against another tough one its a rally great battle and if you don't you can help the person with their own.

Jaon wrote:


Off Topic, someone please explain what soda means in other countries, because in Australia soda is this disgusting drink called mineral water.

In some parts of the U.S. (mine for instance) it means Carbonated beverage, like a Coca-cola, Pepsi Cola, Dr. Pepper, 7-Up, etc.
Other parts of the U.S. call those "Pop" for some reason, very well might be the same down in Aussie territory.

tldr wrote:Grey Knights in Friendly Games...
Hope that's not an oxymoron

I've been reading a lot of lists and tactics that feature specific lists probably for 'ard boyz styled tournament lists, including but not limited to psy-rifle-dread,coteaz henchman spam, purifier crowe spam, etc. I don't think any of these are fun and all of these go against the nature of 40k for fun and friendly play.

Now I'm not saying those sorts of armies aren't effective. My question is... is it a viable army route to build a hybrid of these winning styles and other more well rounded GK builds to build a fun and fair list? Or is a GK players only hope at standing up against a nid hoard/deamon heavy/all comers arena one of these cheese builds? I wouldn't mind taking one or two psybolt dreadnoughts and a few squads of coteaz henchman with some terminators and some grey knights in power armor. What are we looking at for these lists with a blend of chimeras and razorbacks and maybe a stormraven? Sprinkle in an assassin and does this start to seem like a viable list or is it destined to fail?

I don't think gk will be a viable hybrid build. If you don't think any of these 'cheese lists' are fun, then simply don't play or play against them. As long as you don't cry 'cheese' every time you face it, you will be just fine.

And skip competitive tournaments while you are at it.

Well, dependant on fun... I think I will be running either 1 Libby and 1 GM or 2 Libbys as HQ choices. If I decide to break away from that, I will definately use Valeria, she just seems like an uncompetitive but fun unit. Failing that, I will try 1 or 2 Build-your-own Inquisitors, because they too seem like fun.

My lists are also going to be more centered around Psycannons and Psybolts. Sure, my army will be small, but I will have fun packing as many psycannons as I can into it. Do as YOU want, find a fun unit that you like and build a list around it and other fun units you like.

Remember this (Disclaimer, fun is subjective and this is not applicable to all players) : while many builds will be "weaker" than others, that should not discourage you from playing them, hell, I ran an entire scouts list a few weeks ago, and won.