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Had another 500 v 500 with my buddy tonight and something came up that we weren't positive on. I had my termagants (t) screening my hormagants (h) and prime (TP), and because he had no blast templates they were all jammed up B2B to fit in my deployment spot.

tttttttt tttttttt hhhhhhhh hhhhhhhh TP

Basically they were arranged like that. Even the termagants had cover due to terrain, so he said he was just going to shoot at the hormagaunts instead. Now by TLOS he could make out the occasional top of a head of the hormagaunts, but that's it--it was a solid wall of termagants otherwise. Now I didn't particularly care in this instance especially since the attached prime was visible from torso up, but I'm curious how that is intended to work. If I have 3 carnifexes lumbering along in front of say... a Swarmlord, can they just shoot at the Swarmlord if the carnifexes block LOS? I know you can fire through gaps in models, and that's clearly stated in the cover rules, but TLOS rules aren't explicit about units blocking LOS to units behind them that we can recall.

Curious to hear what the accepted interpretation is; our assumption is that TLOS trumps here--if you can't see head, limbs, or torso, then there's no LOS, no matter what is blocking that view. If so, do you have to see the whole head, limb, or torso? Because you could only see the tops of my hormagaunts heads, nothing else.

If you can see a toe you can shoot at it; he was right.

Now remember your hormies(or if he shot at the prime, that too) get a 4+ cover save.

Actually a toe isnt enough, it has to be their leg (feet and wings dont count for example, from the LOS rules)

TLOS is exactly that - can you see it (well, the "body" etc, as per the rules on what counts for LOS) ? Then you can shoot it.

Wait, so if a two isn't enough then a foot wouldn't be either?

"(for ‘body’ we mean its head, torso, legs and arms)"Pg 16 a foot is most assuredly part of a leg.

"Sometimes, all that may be visible of a model is a weapon, an antenna, a banner or some other ornament he is wearing or carrying (including its wings and tail, even though they are technically part of its body)" Pg 16
And it damn well isn't a wing or a tail!

I'm faily sure that the termination of he leg counts for TLOS. While a solar sail on a dinosaur would not, same with horns really.

Odd - I thought your leg ended at the ankle, and your foot took over. It's how I've always interpreted the rule....

It boils down to what a leg is.

When your opponent wants to shoot a single toe sticking out you got two options:

1) Disagree with him and offer a roll-off
2) Let him take the shot, as its most likely not worth arguing. Do not pass up on the opportunity to make immense amount of sarcastic remarks about three of you guys falling down dead in shock when one of them got their little toe shot off. Praise the quality of your armies boots for the rest of the game if he fails to kill anything.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Odd - I thought your leg ended at the ankle, and your foot took over. It's how I've always interpreted the rule....

Well, a leg/foot is part of a 'human body' all of the items listed are clearly non-humanoid appendages.
And it's some hard SM's that run around with their feet shot off
By the same token can we now not shoot *hands?

Hard SM? That's an easy day for them!

They carry on fighting when a leg has been severed at the thigh.

What that? It's only a flesh wound.

What are you goin gto do? BLEED on me?

Dakka: 'tis a silly place*

*with apologies.

It wasn't a big deal, we just wanted to know what the common courtesy was. I have no issue shooting a single hand sticking out in TLOS, for the same reason I have no issue giving cover for a single hand obscured by cover:

The 40K battlefields are not static like the models representing them. They can dive for cover just as I can hit them when they lean out to shoot, etc.

Incidentally, he didn't cause any wounds. It wouldn't have mattered if he shot the screen or not though, they both had cover from terrain. The question just involved if only seeing a little piece of the head, torso, or limbs is enough to satisfy TLOS. The prime was visible and attached to the hormagaunt squad anyway, so in this instance it didn't matter.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Hard SM? That's an easy day for them!

They carry on fighting when a leg has been severed at the thigh.

Hey! It's hard to run on one's stumps without FNP!

IMO, this whole argument is easily solved without having to resort to arguing semantics.

I've always paraphrased it as any part of the body proper. Everything from a toe to hair to a middle finger (yes, that has happened). The only times you don't have LOS is for, as it said: wings, tail, weapons, antennas, Banners, or other ornamentation. And only in those cases would I vote no LOS. It's not a matter is what is a valid target in my personal ruling, but what isn't according to the short list we have.

So, I would vote, a toe or a finger would indeed count for LOS.

Almost all infantry, jump infantry, or monstrous creatures models for 40K have a head, torso, and four limbs. For those who have unconventional bodies I would assume you take similar steps. We have a short list of what is invalid, so it's easy to tell what you can or can't hit on virtually every model.

In short, we don't have to worry about what the book's explanation leaves out, if you're going to split hairs, because it tells us specifically what you *can't* aim at.

nosferatu1001 wrote:What are you goin gto do? BLEED on me?

Dakka: 'tis a silly place*

*with apologies.

I'm invincible!

this post is serious and funny at the same time

What about the bunny ears on khorne beserkers helmets?
I'd say no because it seems like those would give them a disadvantage.

Bunnies for the Blood God!

Bunny ears look like "horns/antennae" or other decorative bits to me. Worth checking with your opponent though.

In the COD and halo world, many soldiers die due to toe and finger shots. Whats to stop it from happening in this game?