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As the title says I have two questions that have nothing to do with each other.

The first question is about space marine scouts. For some reason I am a huge fan of the idea of an army fielding mostly scouts. I was thinking something along the lines of a techmarine boss to upgrade the cover of an objective being held by a telion sniper team. This would be accompanied by 3 5 man CC squads in LS-storms for rapid deployment and objective clearing each squad would have a power fist and combi-flamer. Then the last 2 troop choices would be 10 man CC squads in HS landraiders (crusaders or godhammers). That is 6 scoring units, I havent figured out the costs yet but it should fit within 1850. Im not too sure how good it would do but the look on an opponants face seeing it might be worth it by itself. Would something like this work at all, or would it just an interesting experiment?

The second question is about star cannons. You just dont see them these days. Are they really that bad now that they are only H2 as oposed to H3? I would think that with the AP2 and the great deal of terminators hanging around these days they would be a decent tool again at least in limited numbers. Like WW units with star cannons for saturation fire in a small footprint. Would something like that work or is it still too points intensive and fragile for what might be no useful gain?

An all scout army is viable, but putting a big squad of them in a LR and expecting them to be decent CC units is asking a bit much. Scouts are nice since they are cheap, and have deployment options. LRs take away both.

I don't think I've ever faced star cannons. Looking at what they do, S6 is something eldar get plenty of, in higher volume, for less. The AP2 is not exciting in the era of the mechanized army, or 4+ cover.

I agree with @notabot187 in that a scout army could be viable if you play to the advantages that scouts bring, for example, by taking a landraider you are diluting the advantages of scouts being an expensive choice but if you take landspeaders (the scout carrying one) you are keeping the overall army's point cost down by taking similarily cheap transport.

another way to play to scouts advantages is to base your army around the cover save. Now correct me if i'm wrong but when scouts are in cover they get a 3+ cover save from stealth, right? So if you then bolster the cover more with a techmarine the save will become 2+. Now, if i am correct about this then you have a squad of scouts with 2+ saves, wicked, but it gets better. If you then boobytrap the terrain with some scout bikers you have got 2+ cover saves and if the enemy comes to try to assault you then they get hurt. Dare you to try and peel these guys off an objective.

The problem is that the techmarine spesifies ruins so it is not certain some of those are around. With that being sead the Marine codex has so mutch good in it but not in the troop section IMHO. But scouts are a very sound unit witch is relativly cheap and you can spread them around causing problems while the oponent tryes to deal with the rest of your army forcing him to moastly ignore them.

I would advice tacing dakka dreadnoughts, 2 vindicators and 1 whirldwind and some landspeeders to complement the scouts.

you can probably afford them by ditching the LRs.

A few things to think about for scouts.

1) Blood Angel Scouts Bikers. this is a combo i have always wanted to try, but it is probably not that good, just fun. Priest in a Drop Pod with something, maybe Sterguard. the priest drops close to unit turn 1, the scout bikers charge that unit gaining Furious Charge and FNP. Probably fun, but not really competitive.

2) I think you can make an interesting "Scoutamander" army. List look like this.
Vulkan Hestan

Sternguard with combi weapons in drop pods.

CCW scouts + PF+combi-flamer

Telion with snipers scouts and ML

Land Speeder Storm w/ Multi-Melta

The TL helps on your BS 3 units more than your BS4 ones, so your MM will actually hit most of the time. This kind of list deals a lot of Damage on the first turn, and most people will go all reserves against it, but it could be fun in a friendly game. Add a MotF and some Dreads in pods in a larger game maybe. You will have to see how many scoring unit you will need, you might not need 6.

So because of the mech environment and the plethora of cover saves avalable these days star cannons are a bit obsolete because volume of fire (provided nicely by scatterlasers) wins the day? Also I was going to ask which weapon should go in a tellion squad the poster above seems to think missile but would the heavy bolter not be a better choice because if you are firing a krak missile for instance than the sniper shots are largely wasted? I am glad that Storms are getting good press as I like the idea of feilding 3 of them full of CC scouts to converge on and clear objectives. So instead of buying transports for the other scouts you all think that pie plate support would work better and just outflank or infiltrate the scouts? Instead of pie would ac/las preds work possibly with points left over spent on dreads?

dignifiedsausage wrote: If you then boobytrap the terrain with some scout bikers you have got 2+ cover saves and if the enemy comes to try to assault you then they get hurt.

Lol you would kill your own guys like that! this is from the C:SM about cluster mines: "Cluster Mines are automatically triggered the first time a unit (friendly or enemy) moves into the booby-traped terrain..."

Rex-Nine wrote:

dignifiedsausage wrote: If you then boobytrap the terrain with some scout bikers you have got 2+ cover saves and if the enemy comes to try to assault you then they get hurt.

Lol you would kill your own guys like that! this is from the C:SM about cluster mines: "Cluster Mines are automatically triggered the first time a unit (friendly or enemy) moves into the booby-traped terrain..."

Does this work during deployment? Timing is everything, if it works one way, you are fine as long as they don't move, if it works the other way, than you could kill a squad before the game starts!

Do not get me wrong mines are fun to use! A friend of mine uses scout bikers with mines, put them in places where the enemy would want to run for cover. Or the best place to put them on an objective, that is if the objective is in terrain.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

notabot187 wrote:Does this work during deployment? Timing is everything, if it works one way, you are fine as long as they don't move, if it works the other way, than you could kill a squad before the game starts!

You place the Mines before deployment, That way your opponent might just place a unit in the booby-traped terrain and set them off!

See I think the ML with the Telion squad would be better. Often times, I will shoot Krak missiles at MEQ squads. With Telion, you can pick any unit you want in the squad, hit on a 2+, wound on 2+, ignore armor, and instant death. "Whats that? I just killed that PF sarge with a scout squad? Oops". The snipers are just an added bonus. Plus with rending, they can do damage to transports, so if you are hitting vehicles, they aren't completely wasted.

PraetorDave wrote:See I think the ML with the Telion squad would be better. Often times, I will shoot Krak missiles at MEQ squads. With Telion, you can pick any unit you want in the squad, hit on a 2+, wound on 2+, ignore armor, and instant death. "Whats that? I just killed that PF sarge with a scout squad? Oops". The snipers are just an added bonus. Plus with rending, they can do damage to transports, so if you are hitting vehicles, they aren't completely wasted.

Doesn't work. Eye of Vengeance works only with Telion's shooting attacks and Telion doesn't make a shooting attack when he uses his Voice of Experience ability. You can shoot a BS6 krak missile or you can target specific models, but you can't target specific models with a BS6 krak missile. The ability is pretty handy for shooting at vehicles.