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Hey Dakka, time for my second rendition of the list. Been very successful in its first carnation, so now I'm making some adjustments and asking if you feel they'll get me the effects I desire from them.

Farseer, bike, RoWarding, stones, doom, fortune 175
9 Warlocks, bikes, embolden, enhance, 5 destructor, 1 spear 478

6 bikes, 2 cannons 152
Warlock, embolden, spear 53

6 bikes, 2 cannons 152
Warlock, embolden, spear 53

5 fire dragons 80
Serpent TL cannon 100

Vyper, EML, cannon, 75

Vyper, EML, cannon, 75

Vyper, EML, cannon, 75

5 Dire Avengers 60
Falcon EML, Holo fields 170

Night Spinner, Holo fields 150

Night Spinner, Holo fields 150

Total 1998

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So my old list had 3 squads of bikes as 1/1/2, but now I'm running 2 squads at 1/2/4. I found that I had issues where the troop bikes were just a little too small. It was nice having them so small and mobile, but they couldn't pick off anything over half strength and were not doing what I needed them to tactically. Going to the double-cannon 7 man squads, I believe I can keep they cover saves up while actually being able to use their 2 cannons to prove the volume of fire I need to do some damage.

Old list had the dragon wagon with stones and TL lances. Dropping it to the bareback setup is not an issue, in 9 games I think I managed to get it to pop 1 vehicle since most of the time its going 24" or dead/weapon destroyed. I always knew this was a place to drop points if I needed to, and I've finally done it. Now I can suicide it without even a second thought, just like its designed to

Vypers are pretty hit and miss, but I do love their setup. Not in a squadron, generally don't draw much fire with the council and 4 real tanks out there, and they're amazing at zipping around the back. If they're already behind enemy lines, 6" move with S8 missile and 3 S6 shots from the cannon is a great can opener. I just love their utility and low threat index, so don't plan on dropping them soon. Plus, I'm limited by the FoC to get anything else, and the only real alternative is more GJBs.

The falcon has been strange. Being a 9-shot gunboat in my old setup (scatter laser and cannon) with troops in it made it a big target, so I've dropped it back to just the EML and holo fields and using it as an objective camper moreso than before. Not exactly loving the idea of losing so much S6 firepower, and I feel that this config is a downgrade, but I need it to stay safe, especially since I've lost a troops slot in the reworking.

Both prisms have changed to nightspinners, and I grabbed holo fields. The HFs were a long time coming, been wanting them for a while (1 shot, it hits, pens, 5! FUUUUUU-), but jumping ship to nightspinners is a big call, especially with TWO prisms (where having only one prism in a list become a nightspinner is normal, most people seem to keep prism pairs). I don't know, they have done some good things for me, they're reliable shooting, but I just don't feel like 1 shot per turn is worth the 230 points (300 with HFs) invested. I really, really want feedback on these bad boys. The idea of pinning/slowing my Ork opponents Nobz so that my council can close in without risking the move - waaaugh run - assault that owns me in tarpit hell on his turn. I managed to pin the Nobz one game, and used my assault move to setup my council. Next turn, heavy flamers wiped the squad, and it was all thanks to a Vyper plasma missile. Nightspinners seem to be a sure way to deal with hordes, but are they really bad vs mech and TEQs? Rending can help against MEQs and TEQs but I don't count it as reliable.

The single spear in the council is for wound allocation. Billy the Warlock is there to eat every melta, lascannon, powerklaw and relic blade hit, and somehow walks away most of the time. He is almost as feared as the Farseer who leads them. He threw his spear at a stompa in apocalypse and took a structure point. What a boss.

Back on topic, I really want some feedback on the Night Spinners in this list. Fire Dragons and Council just seem to be more than enough anti-heavy, and the vypers and newly-fitted falcon are great for low-armor clients. Everything in my list minus the troop GJBs is anti-tank, and the prisms were often shooting at squads in most games. I also want some general feedback on the composition, dropping one GJB squad to buff the other 2, and all-comers ability. Lets get some fine tuning done, I don't want to hear "drop bikes, go mech, get more dragons, drop vypers, get prisms nubsauce", I want actual discussion on synergy and playstyle. I'd love to hear from akaean, Araenion and BlueDagger, especially.

Go.

I feel LOTS of anti-infantry from the list, but you are heavily lacking in mid to long range anti-rhino/chimera transport. You'll be getting the jetbikes into danger zone to get them in range early game if you are trying to use them. The seer council will make a mess yes, but it can't catch them all, so now you are relying on the BS3 s8 shots from vypers and the Falcon, which will be kinda hit and miss. Personally I'd swap the vypers to Scatters which will fill the S6 hole, while only giving up 3 S8 shots of which your Falcon and spears should fill in easily.

Nightspinners are money, I wanna hug my ever damn tournament. The latest classic moment was top table of my last tourney, hit a pack grey hunters and 1 rend one armor save. They moved next turn and 5 fell over from dangerous terrain lolol. However going more then one has been something I have considered, but I'm fearful of the diminished returns.

aite!

This looks really solid- especially for a saim hann list.

If you like try replacing the Vypers with a squad of warp spiders. I've found they synergize pretty well with bikes- about the same movement, 3+ saves. Granted they are less saim hanny.

Also swap your warlock spear over onto the farseer. If you are going to take a spear on the council put it on the farseer for bs5. Honestly the farseer really isn't any better in combat then a warlock, so don't really lose anything moving the spear around. Wound allocation doesn't really do *that* much on single wound units anyway, and you already have a bunch of wound groups. I'd wager bs5 would make better use of those 3 points.

I also think you are taking a *tad* to many destructors. Remember, if you accidentally obliterate an infantry squad... you can't declare an assault on your turn... oops. Same goes for singing spears for an extent- you could get "unlucky" and wreck that tank, and suddenly you can't declare a multi charge across an entire mech gun line >_<

I haven't had the pleasure of messing with a spinner yet, I am going to pick up one soon though, so I cannot comment on that.

3 troops should be sufficient, especially if one of them is in the armored hull of a holo falcon.

If by dropping some destructors, and downgrading your vypers to something cheaper, you may be able to buy a second guide seer. You can put your warding runes on that and use it to guide the falcon / a vypers if they are near by. Gives you a safer place to store your psy defense, and a 50% increase in Falcon fire power.

BAHAHAHA take that, marines! Yeah I see them being game winners when the rolls go well, and sometimes that is all you need. I'm also fearful of diminishing returns, I'd hate to shoot my second one at a vehicle for the 1/6 immob just because I'd already hit the only squad on the board. Am I wrong to assume that with ordnance and rending, they get 2 rolls to pen, and a 6 rends for an extra D3? They can pen a goddamn land raider if they roll 6 into a 5/6.

We normally play on 48" tables so distance isn't much of an issue, every tank can be in scatter laser range from turn 2 onwards if I need to be. I do like the Vyper load out but wouldn't mind trying out the scatter lasers in a casual game. I feel that Eldar have so much S6 that their anti-infantry in a list this maneuverable quickly becomes anti-rear armor.

My seer council got a turn 2 multi-assault on 3 basilisks, a chim and an armored sentinel squadron and proceeded to wipe every affected unit off the battlefield, leaving only the poor vets that bailed out of the chim. Sometimes, I really do feel that the council can get everything... but I guess not every game is dawn of war

Keep it coming!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To akaean: yeah, the spear to farseer is a good point. I may drop a destructor and put a spear on him too, I'll see what the FLGS thinks about giving Billy the standard kit before doing anything drastic there.

Guideseer would be super sexy if I was still running my 9-shot falcon, but I feel that with just the pulse laser and EML it may be a bit much throwing an extra 75 points at the falcon. With the DAVU included, that pushes it into the 400's before runes of warding. I feel I'd get more bang by dropping the falcon completely and getting a second council, if I was taking that route, and I don't really want to do that either. Ironically, I often recommend guideseers for falcons to others, it just doesn't seem to fit my list in my eyes.

Warp spiders do lose the theme a bit, and I do love Vypers, I'm just not crazy about spiders even though they're S6 with 2 shots a piece and 3+ saves. Might proxy them in for a trial some time, advice noted.