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Ok so i understand that Tau dont necessarily suck in the 5th edition, but they would be more even with other armies after a few changes, as suggested below by my opinion:
-Hammerhead submunition changed to AP3
-Hammerhead armor to AV12 in front
-Crisis suit mandatory BS4, included multitracker
-All Shas's BS 5
-Ion Cannon Heavy 5
-Stingwings gun Assault 2, for CC given rending and Strength 4
-Drones not count concerning Morale or KP unless in a drone only squad
-Ethereal give aura of rerolling to hit within 12''
-Disruption mandatory on all vehicles

im not saying all of these, but some of them would be nice, especially the Hammerhead ap3, because of the lack of guns or strategies the tau actually have that can actually put some sort of dent in MEQ-based armies

rockprime wrote:

-Hammerhead armor to AV12 in front

What is your rationale for reducing the Hammerhead armour?

because changing the hammerhead's railgun to ap3 might be a bit too much without some sort of drawback, plus it looks exactly the same as all the other tanks in the tau arsenal, with them all being of the same exact structural makeup, so it would be fitting to change the armor to match that of the others. plus, the AV13 isnt really needed if one uses the large amount of mobility that the hammerhead has

rockprime wrote:because changing the hammerhead's railgun to ap3 might be a bit too much

Not really.

Consider what the other "over-used" tier army lists use (Such as Lascannons, S9-10 Templates, lances)

Well, okay then. do these changes seem acceptable? Obviously there would be some sort of point cost change, but idt that i can fairly and accurately say any of those.

Anyone else think its strange that fire warriors only have BS 3? Shooty is all they know!! At least make em as accurate as a SM...

nice to throw ideas out there, I disagree on all point concerning the Hammerhead however, this is one of our most ungimped units. I think the idea for the Ethreal is good, however it would make him a very high priority target, and with his drawbacks if he dies. not sure if i would wanna risk him. Ethreals need to be worth fielding but not so high on the priority list that everyone is going to gun straight towards them in order to gimp us.


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BattlePope wrote:Anyone else think its strange that fire warriors only have BS 3? Shooty is all the know!! At least make em as accurate as a SM...

also Completely agree with this we should not have to rely on markerlights to make us even with SM at shooting

BattlePope wrote:Anyone else think its strange that fire warriors only have BS 3? Shooty is all the know!! At least make em as accurate as a SM...

While I agree it does suck in game terms but as far as fluff it makes sense with the whole Tau vision issue. However you'd think their helmets would compinsate for the problem

I think the Ballistic skill Problem could be solved with Firewarrior veterans say 9 points rather than 7 (what i think FW are worth) obviously they would have Bs4 but possibly Ws3 to represent their experience fighting humans? As in my opinion a Tau veteran is gonna be a brilliant fighter as they are very adaptable as a people. So a FW is gonna get out of 5 years service what a guardsmen gets in 20.

#SHAMELESS PLUG# Have a look at my ethereal rules lol.

Battlesuits get default BS 4.

Kroot get their improved cover save on -any- terrain.

Fire Warrior squads get to either purchase very cheap, linked marlights that are Assault2, or give the sergeant the option to buy a rule making all fire twin-linked for a single turn.

Allow each FW squad to purchase either a rail rifle model or a portable missile pod.

Sephyr wrote:
Battlesuits get default BS 4.

Kroot get their improved cover save on -any- terrain.

Fire Warrior squads get to either purchase very cheap, linked marlights that are Assault2, or give the sergeant the option to buy a rule making all fire twin-linked for a single turn.

Allow each FW squad to purchase either a rail rifle model or a portable missile pod.

+1 to these.

These basic changes would easily fix the codex's main units and are not going "crazy" in my opinion like making Hammerheads have an AP3 blast.

grayspark wrote:

Sephyr wrote:
Battlesuits get default BS 4.

Kroot get their improved cover save on -any- terrain.

Fire Warrior squads get to either purchase very cheap, linked marlights that are Assault2, or give the sergeant the option to buy a rule making all fire twin-linked for a single turn.

Allow each FW squad to purchase either a rail rifle model or a portable missile pod.

+1 to these.

These basic changes would easily fix the codex's main units and are not going "crazy" in my opinion like making Hammerheads have an AP3 blast.

idk, I think that Tau need more weapons that can consistently kill MEQ's, as there is no weapon that is currently in the codex that can do it efficiently, because of either the lack of shots that it has, or some other characteristic that makes it not worth taking, like the vespid gun.

I think the Fire Warriors should have a BS 4. I personally have never dealt a single wound in close combat, the least you could do is give them a shooting chance.

I also think the Tau should be able to run away after losing a close combat without having to make a morale check or something along those lines. It says in the fluff of the Tau Empire codex that they have no attribute of dishonor to a prudent retreat. The way the Tau see last stands is as a lack of imagination or last refuge of an incompetent commander. The strategy of attrition is unknown to them and deserve a special rule to show that way of thinking.

As far as the Hammerhead getting less armor, not a chance, the Tau are fragile as is. Let them at least have something with front armor that is almost up there with a Land Raider, nothing against my battle brothers but I am all for the greater good!

Firewarriors getting bs4 sounds fine to me...

That or just making it cheaper and more flexible to get a lot of marker light drones.

I'm not sure which one scares me more.

Markerlights make the tau different. Make them cheap.
ML drones - 10 pts each
ML upgrade to team leader - free.
Sniper team - 60 pts
Sky Ray - -20 pts

In addition drop the cost of fire warriors and pathfinders by 2 pts each. Overall this should make ML technology prevalent throughout the army. It should address the BS problem in addition to providing the flexibility to remove cover saves or enhance pin tests.

I would also like to see the ROF of burst cannons increased to 4. This would help stealth suits and vehicle mounts. 18" range does not really make a good stand off weapon and actually might make the weapon a good choice for an XV8.

Giving the FW a BS of 4, coupled with the already deadly S5 rapidfire (hell, maybe even make em assault 2 to improve mobility) would definitely make them one of the more viable troop choices in the game long range offensively. I don't know that more deadly tao technology is necessary.


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Maybe let the FW have a few kroothounds in the unit for cc support/ cannon fodder? idk, might be kinda neat.

Fire warriors BS 4. after all they are a shooty army(even more so than the guard) i agree with them being able to voulanterily run from combat-as the guy said read the fluff. whatever you do add + 1 to BS for all the Tau units in the army(but not to things such as vespids and kroot). now they are begining to sound like tau do in the fluff.

I still stand by the fact that tau need some other sort of AP3 or lower weapons, because there are not really many good choices that we have.

Crisis Suits should get WS+1....these are veterans of many battles. One reason is having a full squad take 2 wounds, then break, then all die to sweeping advance by 2!!?? SM.--rant over.

more Flechette type options in the units.....Flechette Drones, on Crisis suits as Wargear....and Drop that whole Special Equipment nonsense. Let me take AFPs or Positional Relays if I want.....These weapons/gear are not overpowered and open up the options of our suits.

I honestly think that, once you deal with the "elite riflemen who suck at shooting" issue, you don't need to lower the AP od the FW rifles. They'll have such a good volume of wounds they -will- impact 3+ and even 2+ saves.

However, that doesn't mean the Vespids should be left the utter crapthey are. AP3 fire could be supplied in a different unit. Perhaps making the Vespid weapons range 18 -or- Assault 3/Heavy3.

I'd think it'd be cool if you kept them at BS3, but gave each unit of Fire Warriors with a leader two free Marker Drones, or something along those lines.
So they can shoot really well, or sacrifice some of it to ignore cover, or keep things pinned more easily, etc.
Tau are good at shooting, but they rely on their tech for everything. Show that in-game. Make them good at shooting, but not just by increasing their numbers.

Kroot need to be given a minor upgrade, maybe increase their toughness or allow the shaper and squad members to a take a few special weapons or something, as for a specialised CC unit, they aren't exactly that fantastic. And maybe lower the cost of FW, I can't remember the exact cost, but is it 14p? I think it should be lowered by 3-4p

If Markerlights were cheaper....alot cheaper. than i would have no problem with tau staying at BS3 but i would also require that drones not count towards the model count in FW squads.

Also fletchettes on suits is interesting idea, but i think this would piss off my tyr/ork friends.

but burst cannon being assault 4 would make me wanna use them more often.

I am not sure what needs to be done to kroot, but they need just a small tweek to make them better. Maybe some kind of option for power weapons.

I am almost positive that when the next codex does come out that alot of things will be cheaper cost.

I am torn about crisis suits getting better WS....they are elite veteran soldiers, however they are that of a shooty army that find melee combat distasteful....so i think that the WS is fine, and I will continue using my jump shot jump tactic with them.

Also correct me if I am wrong but as i think the Pulse carbine is assault 1, i think it should be assault 2.

I really want to rely on Vespid for killing MEQs, but unfortunatly they blow all sorts of different ways, and that will prolly not change.

Markerlights should be (1)cheaper, (2)assault, and (3)should not be "expended" when used by a friendly unit. Instead, the markerlight stays on the enemy unit to be used by all friendly units and has an increasing effect table based on the number of markerlights.

#MLS | Effect
1 | +1 BS
2 | -1 Cover Save
3 | Reroll to wound
4 | Unit is counted as being in difficult terrain next turn
5 | Reroll to Hit

This alone would solve alot of the BS issues and give the Tau tools to slow enemies down.

ObiFett wrote:
4 | Unit is counted as being in difficult terrain next turn

What, are you shining laser pointers in their eyes?

And Tau -does- have an ability to slow enemies down. Pinning weapons. Which Markerlights can make better, by the way.

Hahaha. Its not the lasers in the eyes that are making it difficult terrain, its knowing that the army is marking you for death. So the enemy unit moves slower out of caution. It works fluff-wise.

And pinning works on NOTHING right now.

If markerlights significantly lowered leadership for pinning and made it so any unit (fearless or no) could be pinned, then I would go with the pinning option. As it is, difficult terrain would be more useful and not broken, imo.

Edit: OR if pulse rifles were pinning. Wow, that might actually be worth it. What if all pulse weaponry was pinning? That would make some of the points I spend on FWs worth it. And would add a new dynamic to the army. If the majority of their shots could cause an enemy unit to be pinned (fearless or no), it would give them the ability to seriously slow down enemies.

Sephyr wrote:
Kroot get their improved cover save on -any- terrain.

I'll be shocked if Kroot don't get stealth in whatever their next codex is.

I've not really had much of a problem with the Hammerhead's submuntion round being ap4 (I usually take 2 and just blanket targets).

I've been kicking some ideas around for Farsight enclaves, I've yet to do any proper testing outside of pitting my Night Lords against them and playing on a 4x4 table. Top of the list is 'Alright' just moving stuff around the current codex. Getting further down is getting progressively squirrely.

Firstly, replace standard firewarriors with the 'honor guard' firewarriors (2 points more than firewarriors and are BS4) include defensive and assault grenades for free (...they're veterans and aren't with the normal Tau) Pathfinders would be 14 points. Add to the Ork Fighter special rule that Farsight confers to his army (preferred enemy: orks) the OLD Ork fighter Special rule (+1 WS, +1 I). This would apply to all Tau units (Veteran FW, Veteran Pathfinders.

Make all Crisis suit teams under farsight 1-4 man teams (reduce farsight bodyguard to 3 members, increase other HQ's bodyguards to 3 members). Make all Crisis teams BS4 with "hard wired" target arrays (non existant in current codex) 35 points plus additional wargear (can't buy another target array)

Revise farsight cadre limitations: May take 1 Kroot squad for every 2 Firewarrior Veteran squads, 0 ethereals, 0 Vespid. No other limitations on forces. (Farsight Enclaves are not with the Tau Empire, Kroot do have mercenaries so the 1 kroot squad per 2 firewarrior squad is plausible, whereas the bugs that wear the "communion helm" aren't.)

New suit system: Close Combat weapon. Takes up a slot, adds +1 attack and gives the suit's CC attacks the Rending USR. 10 points.

Dawnblade revision: Farsight does not strike as a monstrous creature. Dawnblade is a power weapon that doubles Farsights strength in close combat (strength 10).

Im going to be B**t Fu*ked if all these requests are filled

I have no interest in cheaper Fire Warriors - I'd much rather see them be worth 10 points than have to field more of them.
I think markerlights are fine as is. The rumor of "more crisis suits as troops" also doesn't thrill me if they

I'd like to see:
Drones Fearless or better still choose to pass or fail moral tests. They're robots fer crying out loud.
Hit and run on all tau units, or maybe just suits and units with photon grenades.
36" range on Pulse Rifles, pulse carbines assault 2, but cost more.
Fun new auxiliaries - nothing too super, just run of the mill alien citizens of the galaxy fighting for the greater good.
For devilfish I'd like a special rule that allows them a 6" embarking/dismount distance instead of a 2". The problem with 'shoot and scoot' is that have to be all bunched up next to the transport. If FW could embark from battle formation and move away, they'd be much better. Devilfish also need to move 18" as you're barely faster than guys on foot running to catch you as it stands now.