Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Although this has some applications with other codecies, I figure that Grey Knights have the most important application with their new devestating funbombs.

Anyway, if a unit contains an independant character equipped with unique grenades, and the unit multi-assaults 2 or more units, does the independant character's grenades affect every enemy unit involved in the combat, even if they aren't in base-to-base contact with the independant character?

For example, say that a unit of Grey Knight Terminators is accompanied by a Grand Master with Rad Grenades, see the formation below:

Grand Master: X
Terminator: O
Enemy model: E


EE
EEEE
EOXOO
OOOOEEE
EEEEEE

Would both enemy units suffer the effects, or just the one directly assaulting the Grand Master?

Technically, you only charge one of the units, the other unit is 'accidently' charged along the way. But in contrast i would say that the grenades effect the squad that is charged first even if it is the squad that is 'accidenlty' charged.

(cant spell accidently and it won't spell check it ;'( )

-Alex.

If they are only effecting the unit the GM is directly assaulting then only the GM would gain the benefits (say from psychotrope grenades) which would make those grenades effectively useless. If you are counting the unit as benefitting then every unit that they assault must be effected.

Lovely.

With the small, elite armies I tend to play, I usually have to abuse multi-assault tactics as much as possible to stand a chance. Glad to know that I can 'share the wealth.'

Fair point Fling. Looks like i've changed my mind .

-Alex.

Rad grenades would only effect the unit(s) that the GKGM actually made contact with.


now, any other Gk unit in the assault would benifit from the Rad grenades -1T modifer when rolling to wound the afflicted unit.

melta grenades

Actually it is Melta bombs and what about them, they only effect vehicles and are used instead of making attacks normally on those vehicles.

Actually, reread the codex under the grenades section and it tells you how they work....

Blind Grenades are defensive.
Brain Mines are used against one model in B2B with the bearer of the grenades.
Frag, Krak, and Melta are well known, so no need to explain.
Psychotroke is every enemy unit being assaulted or every enemy unit assaulting, so would work on all in a multiassault.
Psyk out work on any demon or psyker is any units being assaulted, so work in a multi assault (only works if GK is assaulting though.)
Rad works against every enemy unit that is assaulting or that is assaulted.

Hope this helps!!!

Galador wrote:Actually, reread the codex under the grenades section and it tells you how they work....

Blind Grenades are defensive.
Brain Mines are used against one model in B2B with the bearer of the grenades.
Frag, Krak, and Melta are well known, so no need to explain.
Psychotroke is every enemy unit being assaulted or every enemy unit assaulting, so would work on all in a multiassault.
Psyk out work on any demon or psyker is any units being assaulted, so work in a multi assault (only works if GK is assaulting though.)
Rad works against every enemy unit that is assaulting or that is assaulted.

Hope this helps!!!

For Psychotroke and Psy-out(and rads) they would work on all models in an initial multi-assault; but not all enemy models if the enemy assaults an already ongoing combat(only the new assaulters).

Played a game yesterday where I saw firsthand those psychotroke grenades lay me out pretty badly. It was a unit of paladins with a grand master. When I assaulted them later on in the game, I made sure to only get models in base contact with the paladins and not the grand master, and all the players agreed it caused the psychotroke grenades to not work because the unit that had them was not assaulted.

Except you played it incorrectly, as has been shown a few times already

WHen you make assault moves, the IC+Paladins are ONE UNIT. When you resolve attacks, you *treat the IC* as a separate unit - but ONLY for resolving attacks.

yup, i could attach a cheapo inquisitor/techmarine loaded up with all sorts of Grenade nastyness just for the bonuses and have him at the rear of the pack never to get hit, but you are getting hit with all the stuff.

Yeah the Techmarine wiith a sackfull of grenades is just hilarious

nosferatu1001 wrote:When you resolve attacks, you *treat the IC* as a separate unit - but ONLY for resolving attacks.

This is not exactly stated.

It states that "the character assaults too, as it is part of the unit. When the attacks are resolved, however, independent characters are always treated as a seperate single-model unit. . .even though they have joined the unit. . .Once all attacks have been resolved, there characters are once again treated as normal members of the unit".

That does not imply the character is ONLY seperate for resolving attacks. It states they ARE seperate until attacks are resolved.

Editing to add:
This is the problem with effects that target units unless you assume each model in a unit is affected.

So by that conclusion ICs confering any CC abilities or FNP would not work?

Jidmah wrote:So by that conclusion ICs confering any CC abilities or FNP would not work?

Exactly.

There was a long thread about Snapshot vs Target duration, or somesuch regarding exactly that and what happens to an IC that is no longer part of a unit affected by an ability.

If you think an IC can leave a targeted unit to negate (the Eldar power) Doom, then that is EXACTLY the rules you are suggesting apply here.

well, since the IC is treated as a seperate unit when the attacks are resolved and Grenades are done before the actual assault it will still cause the Grenades to be activated.

Kirsanth - while it is not explicitly stated, they clearly define the start and end point of when you "treat as" an IC as a separate unit. Certainly at the start of the asasult, and before you resolve attacks, he is a normal member of the unit - and as this is when grenades kick in there are no issues.

kirsanth wrote:

Jidmah wrote:So by that conclusion ICs confering any CC abilities or FNP would not work?

Exactly.

There was a long thread about Snapshot vs Target duration, or somesuch regarding exactly that and what happens to an IC that is no longer part of a unit affected by an ability.

If you think an IC can leave a targeted unit to negate (the Eldar power) Doom, then that is EXACTLY the rules you are suggesting apply here.

So the Minestorium Priests' Righteous Fury does nothing? Hard to believe that, given that it even names exceptions from joined units.