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I am starting WHFB and need some advice on the different high elf units.
Questions:
1) How are Silver Helms vs Dragon Princes?
2) How good are Phoenix Guard?
3) How good is the High Elf part of the Island of Blood set?
4) How good is the High Elf Battilion?

Sorry these questions are somewhat random. I got some info from another website and wanted a second opinion.

2) The Phoenix Guard are considered a very strong anvil unit. They will not make back their points by killing, but they are a big, effective brick wall that will stop most units dead in their tracks and hold them there until you can do something with them. Against low leadership armies, they can be very effective (cause fear) in combat, but their biggest strength comes from breaking up your opponent's game plan by taking a key unit or two out of action for half the game or denying them the ability to advance the way the want.

3) By itself, not very good. It does, however, act as a good starting point. I traded my skaven for a second set of the elves, and with some minor conversions (including a reaver standard bearer that looks pretty cool!), it formed the core of my 2250 army. The Seaguard and Swordmasters will have a place in pretty much any HE force, though the unit sizes straight out of the box are way too small to be effective.

The quality of the sculpts are pretty good, with a lot of detail and some really great minis - especially the lord on the griffon.

4) I looked at the battalion box and ended up giving it a skip. The 20 spearmen and 20 archers are nice and solid (though I personally prefer Seaguard over straight-up archers). The chariot works well - I think most HE armies will include at least one as a hammer. But I'm not sure what the place of the repeater bolt thrower is in 8th. For me, anyway, it's kind of a marginal value. I'd probably spend those points on more magical offense.

The actual box itself is pretty solid overall, but the dollars-per-battlefield value tradeoff just isn't enough for me to scream "deal."

1) Silver Helms are not worth it point wise compared to DP for their awesomeness. But they are better than a poke in the eye.

Acardia wrote:1) Silver Helms are not worth it point wise compared to DP for their awesomeness. But they are better than a poke in the eye.

Thanks,

The reason I ask is because some people say that for fewer points you can get a Silver helm thats just about as good. I was wondering who was in the majority.
Sorry about any spelling mistakes.

I absolutely love the Island of Blood set. I bought one and my best friend did too. I gave him my Skaven and I got his High Elves. I also got the entire High Elves set by itself as a present from my fiancé, for a total of 3 sets. Since then I have ordered more Seaguard off of ebay as people are selling the units individually from the box set.

I love the Phoenix Guard. With the right lords/heroes in the unit and some spell augmentation, they are unstoppable and will kill and unit of any size. They recently demolished a horde of 40-50 plague monks + furnace in a tournament. I swear by them.

I don't have any opinion on the cavalry as I don't use either very much.

The battalion set seems okay. I bought one, I just haven't put it together.

I am still looking for advice. Could people please respond to this post.

Strelka wrote:
4) I looked at the battalion box and ended up giving it a skip. The 20 spearmen and 20 archers are nice and solid (though I personally prefer Seaguard over straight-up archers). The chariot works well - I think most HE armies will include at least one as a hammer. But I'm not sure what the place of the repeater bolt thrower is in 8th. For me, anyway, it's kind of a marginal value. I'd probably spend those points on more magical offense.

Stick a spear on the back of an archer and there's a seaguard. Stick a bow on the back of a spearelf and you have a seaguard, too.

That's what I see most often, at least.

Thanks for the info so far. The Questions I that still need ansers to are:

1) Silver Helmes vs Dragon Princes
2) How good are Phoenix Guard

Silver helms would be good if they were core. As a special, Dragon Princes are far superior.

Phoenix Guard are good at surviving but not as good at killing as swordmasters or white lions. That's not to say they can't kill things, but other units do that better.

IMO sea guard are overpriced for what they do.

You will find with most competitive play that both Dragon Princes and Silver Helms are not worth their points value. Due to their high points costs, you usually find yourself taking on much larger units, and both suffer from rubber lance syndrome. After the charge they hit at S 3 and can barely break even lightly armored foes.

You will find that points invested into Phoenix Guard is the best way to go. They are the best unit you can field. They have a great WS, high I, S 4 (which is pretty good for HE) cause fear, and have the 4+ ward save. Phoenix Guard should be the anvil unit that you protect your mages with.

I see where your going with the anvil unit. But how would having two semi-strong units instead? That way when you get to the enimy's anvil, you can hold it in place and flank it. The problem with an anvil unit is that when it hits the enemy anvil unit, both are pritty much out of the game.

Which is why we take hammers and gimmicks. Magic is a good way for elves to whittle down enemy anvil units. Ideally you want your anvil meeting their anvil while you flank with a hammer. Otherwise it's a wash as you stated.

Watch what happens to anvil units when phoenix guard charge the front and swordmasters flank.

I would also mention that HE initiative only ever matters against other models with ASF. Otherwise it's a wasted stat for them, so it doesn't matter if it's high or not.

I personally run 25 phoenix guard and 5 dragon princes. I also run 2x25 spearmen, 10 archers, 2 eagles and 6 levels of magic.

aerethan wrote:I would also mention that HE initiative only ever matters against other models with ASF. Otherwise it's a wasted stat for them, so it doesn't matter if it's high or not.

Of course it matters. I high enough and ASF means free hatred every turn.

As Jouso mentioned, the I stat is one of the most important stats for the HE army based on the current rule for ASF.

If your I is higher than the enemies (equal to or higher), you may reroll misses.

As far as Anvil vs Anvil, with the proper magic support for your army, your anvil should be annoyingly hard to take down.

Lehnsherr wrote:As Jouso mentioned, the I stat is one of the most important stats for the HE army based on the current rule for ASF.

If your I is higher than the enemies (equal to or higher), you may reroll misses.

As far as Anvil vs Anvil, with the proper magic support for your army, your anvil should be annoyingly hard to take down.

But won't the enemy have the same idea?

+1 Ld, +1 A plus Dragon Armour makes the Dragon Princes the clear winner.