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I am brand new to Skaven and Fantasy altogether. I am just wondering what everyone thinks of the 2500 point army I put together. I will mainly be facing Empire, but I want an army that can take on anything. I like Lore of Shadow and Death with this army.


Grey Seer Screaming Bell, SkavenBrew,
Chieftan Great Weapon, BS, Shroud of Dripping Death
Plague Priest Level 2, Hand Weapon, Sword of Might, Warpstone Armor
Assassin Fencer's Blades
40 Clanrats (spears) Shields, Standard Bearer, Clawleader, Musician
40 Clanrats (swords) Shields, Musician, Standard Bearer, Clawleader
4 Rat Swarms (for the flank)
Master Moulder Great Weapon
3 Rat Ogres Master-bred Ogre
Master Moulder Great Weapon
3 Rat Ogres Master-bred Ogre
10 Gutter Runners Slings, Poison, Deathrunner (Weeping Blade)
30 Slaves Slings
30 Slaves Slings
30 Slaves Slings
Hellpit Abomination

Welcome to the rats and here are some thoughts on your list

I haven't seen many people using skavenbrew so I'm thinking it's not too popular at the moment (probably because we want everything to be steadfast). It would probably be just as effective to up your clanrat unit to 50 and make them 10 wide (with the bell taking up some significant room).

with your BSB drop the great weapon and shroud and go for the storm banner or defensive items. You can't afford to have him in combat striking last with just a 5+ save. at least with a shield he has a 4+ save and 6+ parry

Plauge priest can't have armour as he is a wizard.

I don't like spears on clanrats as they aren't going to kill much anyway. I prefer hand weapon shield but I know others go for the spears

With your rat swarms I think they would be better in two sets of 2 than one set of 4 but I personally don't use them

With the rat ogres I'd combine them into one unit (of 6) with 4 normal packmasters and no master moulders (master bred rat ogre is a must though)

I like the gutter runners but not a fan of the weeping blade on the deathrunner. You only have 2 attacks with him and i don't think you get the poison on the weeping blade

Slaves with slings whilst fun probably won't do much damage. Their much better just as fodder and cover for everything else.

Apart from that I do like the list and it's a pretty good first attempt. You have nice solid units allthough it does seem a bit small for 2.5k (for skaven). If you have 90 spare points then warp lightning cannons are awesom.

leighr3029 wrote:I don't like spears on clanrats as they aren't going to kill much anyway. I prefer hand weapon shield but I know others go for the spears.

The problem is, when you build rats from the IoB starter box you have to use the spears. I suppose you could hit up bitz sellers but most people just build the rats with what's provided in the box.

Breotan wrote:

leighr3029 wrote:I don't like spears on clanrats as they aren't going to kill much anyway. I prefer hand weapon shield but I know others go for the spears.

The problem is, when you build rats from the IoB starter box you have to use the spears. I suppose you could hit up bitz sellers but most people just build the rats with what's provided in the box.

My solution was to use the IoB Spear Rats at the back of my Hand Weapon units. They're the first to be removed, and the majority of the unit is armed with the correct weapons. There are also a few threads showing how to clip the spears down to look like a hand weapon, I believe.

I will make some of those changes. I am still learning the rules. I have played 40k for the last 10 years so I have to unlearn all of that. Maybe this is my 40k past taking over, but the WLC all that good? Reading about it and the way it is used it seems like a weapon that won't do much. As I understand it you roll the artillery die and that is the distance and strength of the weapon. So at best you are firing 10 inches and probably getting charged after that. Maybe it's better than I am seeing. Again this may be the 40k talking where a weapon that can't kill a minimum of 5 guys is useless. I will remove the weeping blade from the deathmaster and the armor from the priest. For the BSB what about the Banner of Eternal Flame. That way all attacks are flaming and cause fear. The Skavenbrew I'll try and just see if it's any good. I like the idea of one unit of 6 ogres l, but can't you only have 3 packmaster at that point? The swarms I'll split up and stickthem on a flank since they are unbreakable. Thanks for the guidance.

Building a Skaven army can be expensive but once you get to a certain point you got enough bits to do whatever you want. My suggestion is you can get clanrat weapons on Ebay bitz dealers SUPER cheap and they fit perfect. Or go buy 2-3 boxes of Clanrats and you will have the bits to do what you need to.

mbutler132000 wrote:I will make some of those changes. I am still learning the rules. I have played 40k for the last 10 years so I have to unlearn all of that. Maybe this is my 40k past taking over, but the WLC all that good? Reading about it and the way it is used it seems like a weapon that won't do much. As I understand it you roll the artillery die and that is the distance and strength of the weapon. So at best you are firing 10 inches and probably getting charged after that. Maybe it's better than I am seeing. Again this may be the 40k talking where a weapon that can't kill a minimum of 5 guys is useless.

With the WLC you guess how far you want to shoot then you roll the artilery dice and that is where the shot first "lands". Then it 'bounces' a further artilery dice worth of inches and then explodes into the small template. So it effectively has a range of 48" (maximum guess range) plus potentially 20". Imagine it finishes on top of a unit at S10. All models touched by the template are basically dead. It also does D6 wounds so is good for taking out large monsters.
The small template is worse in 40K because everyone is more spread out but in fantasy every model is ranked up so the small template hits a lot of guys (the big template moreso but those shots are usually at a lower strength)

mbutler132000 wrote: like the idea of one unit of 6 ogres l, but can't you only have 3 packmaster at that point? The swarms I'll split up and stickthem on a flank since they are unbreakable. Thanks for the guidance.

If you have a look at the FAQ you can. Basically Rat Ogres come as a pack of 2 ogres & 1 master which you can add as many ogres as you want and as many masters as you want as long as the ratio of added masters rat ogres is not greater than 2:1. So with the starting pack of 2 and 1 you can add a master as you have 2 ogres. Then you add another 2 ogres and another master, then you add another 2 ogres and anoter master. The key is the original packmaster does not count towards the 2:1 ratio rule.

mbutler132000 wrote: I like Lore of Shadow and Death with this army.

Just to let you know, Skaven are limited to their own spell decks, so its plague or ruin only

Ok, here is the new list.

Grey Seer - Screaming Bell, Skalm, Dispell Scroll 495
Chieftan - BS, Banner of Eternal Flame, Shield 82
Plague Priest - Level 2, Hand Weapon, Portent of Verminous Doom, Shadow Magnet Trinket 192
Assassin - Potion of Strength, Spell Shield, Tail Weapon 168
40 Clanrats (swords) - Shields, Standard Bearer, Clawleader, Musician 200
40 Clanrats (swords) - Shields, Musician, Standard Bearer, Clawleader 200
4 Rat Swarms - 100
2 Packsmasters - 16
6 Rat Ogres - Master-bred Ogre 255
10 Gutter Runners - Slings, Poison, Deathrunner, Smoke Bombs 202
50 Slaves - Slings 125
50 Slaves - Slings 125
Hellpit Abomination 250
Warp Lightning Cannon 90

This army comes to right at 2500 points. The swarms will be in two units on the flank. The assassin will join the Gutter Runners. Please let me know what you think and if I have made any mistakes. Appreciate the help.

Did this rule need an FAQ? I thought the army book said that for every two ogres you can have one packmaster. Is that not essentially what everyone is saying?

IT used to say that Rat ogres can take one additional Packmaster

so if you buy a unit new, you can take 2 ogres and two PM's as thats what is supplied in the Battalion.


Also, JUST learnt that HPA CAN Flee and Pursue 3d6 !

Sweet ^^
I'm gonna catch those fleeing knights now

Bloodhorror wrote:IT used to say that Rat ogres can take one additional Packmaster

so if you buy a unit new, you can take 2 ogres and two PM's as thats what is supplied in the Battalion.


Also, JUST learnt that HPA CAN Flee and Pursue 3d6 !

Sweet ^^
I'm gonna catch those fleeing knights now

guess it all depends on how you read it im reading in to the "but no more then 1 per every 2 rat ogres". the way im reading it is the unit starts as 2 RO and one master, you can add more RO but can only add another master for every 2 RO added.

Yeah...

Its kinda confusing >.<

S'okay. I'm here.

A'hem:

Skaven official update (v. 1.4)-

Q. Can I take a unit consisting of 2 Rat Ogres and 2 Packmasters
when I pick an army? (p104)
A. Yes.

So, moving on:

- hand weapon versus spears. I've done the math here; spears are better than not. The 6+ Parry save will save less of your models than the spears will kill in almost every situation.
That said, if your Clanrats aren't expected to do much killing, shields will help them stay Steadfast longer. Finally-and this is key-spears are more expensive. So while spears will make my Clanrats better, I'd sooner spend those points on other stuff that's even better than that.

- your characters are a little odd. If you want magical banners, you can take Stormvermin and/or Plague Monks; I'd almost always put a nice, fat Ward save on my Chieftain (5+ at least. A 4+ is better. Talisman of Preservation and Charmed Shield is amazing). This guy can easily do as much or more for you than your general, even considering the lvl4 goodness. Keepin' him alive is key. Also, a Halberd is nice for S5 I6.
The priest is interesting. The only thing I'd do is slap on a flail instead of the extra knife. S6 is pretty serious.
The assassin doesn't seem all that effective. I'd go something like Weeping Blade and Potion of Strength, or maybe just Sword of Antiheroes. Or just the potion (to keep an extra attack and Poison). And he should not join the Gutter Runners. They'll do what they do just fine without him, and they'll be far too tempting (and easy) a target with him.
Finally, a Warlock Engineer with a Doomrocket. Go on and get one. It's so good it's dumb.

- Rat Swarms can be kind of cool, but they'll die super, super fast (3-4 bases/phase). To just about anything. They're really only useful for war machine hunting, and Giant Rats are better at that.
As for protecting your flanks; you've got 5 decent-sized blocks (I'd buff up the one pushing the bell to 50, though), one of them Unbreakable, and a giant stubborn monster. You'll do fine.

- 4 packmasters should help keep those Rat Ogres not Stupid.

- I'd drop the Deathrunner and his 'bombs, and split the units. Your opponent needs to kill 3 of them (-1 to hit, T3, 6+ save...not hard) to make them panic, and probably run off the board. With two units of 5, he'll need to kill 4 before all of them are running. These guys are just...so stupidly good at taking down war machines. You'll want to give them two or three turns to do so.

- Musicians in the Slave units is a must. Pawleaders are less so, but still very, very useful (for challenges).

- The Warp Lightning Cannon. So good. So very, very, very good. It shoots just like a normal cannon, with the downside that it's Strength is an artillery die. But then, it ends in a large template. So you aim 6"+(1/2 of the unit's depth)" away, the shot lands on average 6" away, then bounces an average of 6". You can easily kill almost 20 models. It's a stone thrower and a cannon together, for 90pts!
But it doesn't end there. It doesn't allow armour saves, so it's good against cavalry and elite troops. It's good against hordes with its template. It's good against monsters thanks to d6 wounds. It can kill ghosts. And it can shoot into combats, if your only troops involved are slaves. For. Ninety. Points. Awesome.

So...okay. I'm done. Good luck.

After adjusting a few things I have the following choices. Please help me decide which to go with.

1. Keep plague priest as is and take warlock engineer with doomrocket

2. Make plague priest level 1 and take warlock engineer level 1 with doomrocket.

Not a huge difference in that I still get two spells, but I am not sure if there is a huge difference in having a level 2 wizard as opposed to two level 1 wizards.

I'd just keep one guy as a lvl2. If your Grey Seer messes up on a cast/dispel, this guy's more likely to help out a little. Plus, if you end up with Skitterleap, you won't feel bad sending your Engineer ("with a bamf!") to his DOOM.