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Is there any reason I can't put my Sorceror Lord of Tzeentch on Disc in a unit of, say, Marauders?

Yes. the rules, mainly

Your character has the "fly" rule, and so cannot join units. If you're thinking about the 'ard boyz lightning strike then not taking disc lords would make sense....

I didn't recall seeing that rule remain, and don't have a rulebook handy.

Hrm. I don't like the idea of being forced to have him in a unit...

nosferatu1001 wrote:Yes. the rules, mainly

Your character has the "fly" rule, and so cannot join units. If you're thinking about the 'ard boyz lightning strike then not taking disc lords would make sense....

Where is the Characters with Fly can't join units rule?

I looked under Fly pg 70 and Characters and Units pg 97. Either I am blind or I can't find that prohibition (probably just blind). The only one I have found so far is Characters mounted on Monsters can't join units pg 105.

Now, a character can't join a unit of fliers (pg 97), but that is a different can of worms.

Doh! I'd appreciate knowing where the rule is, too, but I knew there was something keeping me from doing this during scenario 3. I need to take the disc characters, anyway, but it's going to hurt if I roll a 2.

Seems the rules forbit charascters from joining flyer untis but dosen't forbid character flyers joining units.

Gah, now thats embarrassing.

Apologies, having had another look thats a 7th ed hangover there. You'll be able to have him fly aboutAND join units

Wouldn't they be limited to the disks move of 1 though? Or would he still get to use the M10 from Fly, but be slowed to the speed of the Marauders?

streamdragon wrote:Wouldn't they be limited to the disks move of 1 though? Or would he still get to use the M10 from Fly, but be slowed to the speed of the Marauders?

This i don't know, but would like answered.

he would get his 10" fly move.

naturally he can't move faster then the unit he's in.


he just flys slower

Relevant rules seem to be:

Fly (LRB page 70)
(Models with Fly have Swiftstride as well.)
Moving Flyers
In Warhammer, flight is represented by a swoop or glide of up to 10".

Units made up entirely of models that can fly can move or charge normally on the ground, using their movement value, or instead choose to fly.
...
A unit that makes a flying charge does so using the glide move of 10" as its Movement characteristic.

Flee and Pursue
Flyers always move on the ground when attempting to flee or pursue - there is simply no time for them to take off properly.

Combined Units (LRB page 99)
Movement
A unit always moves at the same rate as the slowest model, so when the unit moves, charges, flees or pursues, always use the lowest Movement characteristic and rules of the slowest troop type. (I suspect the "flees or pursues" part is a holdover, as those are (generally) straight 2d6 and don't reference M at all.)

Special Rules
(We all know what this rule says...)

So we know a few things:

1. While the Lord on Disk has Fly, the marauders clearly do not.
2. The section for moving Flyers is oddly worded. A normal move gets to be up to 10", but doesn't specifically replace the M characteristic in the same fashion as a charge does.
3. There is nothing in the Rulebook or WoC FAQs relating to Flyers or the Disk that is appropriate to this question.


From a/my strict RAW standpoint, the rules for Fly do not allow you to use the 10" fly as your Movement characteristic when making a normal move. This would mean that the unit would be limited to the M1 of the Disk when making normal moves and/or marches. When charging, the unit would use the M4 of the marauders, as the Disk suddenly becomes M10 for the charge but is slowed to the M4 of the marauders.

That said, I would have 0 problems allowing my opponent to use 10" Fly along with the Marauders M4, thus moving the combined unit at M4. I'm not an 'Ard Boyz TO though, so that's really beside the point I suppose.

Hmmm, I will have to give the TO where I'm going the heads up about this and find out how he'll rule on it.

Will do that and get back with you guys on what he says.

It looks like you are restricted to 1"

It states "units entirely made up of "fly" may...." - the unit isnt entirely made up of models with the Fly rule.

But they can charge at the full speed of the unit, still?

If you go at the slowest movement of the unit, and think they can't fly, then no, they would charge 1+2d6. (IMO, didn't mean to make it should like it is 100% clear)

So since the only reason that I can ever see myself putting a disc rider in a unit is 'Ard Boyz scenario 3 let me run this hypothetical scenario by you all, based on the rules discussion above:

My army will likely consist of throgg, 2 disc riding characters, 2 units of hounds, 2 large blocks (one trolls, one ogres), and 2 hellcannons.

Deployment: A disc rider is joined to each unit of hounds
Turn 1: Blocks move up, hounds and disc riders move a paltry 2" on the march
Turn 2: Blocks move up again, disc riders fly to join them (only needing to be in range of the back edge of the blocks, which should be easy with a 20" fly move) leaving the hounds
Turn 3-4: Blocks are hopefully in combat. If not, they should be close enough having moved up to 24" while marching on turns 1 and 2 to make their current M1 (based on the discs walking) not matter too much.

My thought is that this will be the order for me to do things in, so that the disc riders are never alone, but the blocks can get upfield where they need to be.

While the discs are attached to the large blocks, moving 2" should only matter if they're not in combat, since overrun is 2D6 with no movement value added. Charging 1" + 2D6 is no fun... if they are in that situation, depending on the distance, I may just reform to rotate one edge closer to the enemy. If nothing else, a failed charge will likely move them farther than a march will

So does this look kosher, before I run it past the TO?

Interesting thought,

playing HE, and this might be a way to keep my chicken noble safe from the effect of the lightning. Stick him with a unit that might not move much to begin with, and if t he objective is uncontested he might be able to march out of the unit to claim it.

RiTides, I was thinking along the same lines. Can he join a hound unit?

Yup. Warhounds are WarBeasts, which is not one of the unit types characters are prevented from joining.

If you wanted to be funny, you could start with the hounds leaving their sorcs at the march, zipping forward. Then the sorcs use their fly move to join the other unit of hounds (or any other unit.) Lather, rinse, repeat until you get stuck in combat or run out of units to join.

That sounds really cheeky! And is definitely something that I will do (this is 'Ard Boyz, and a crazy scenario!) assuming it is kosher.

I can't see anything wrong with it... a unit can't move after a character joins them, but they can certainly move before they do.

Would it work with two characters? I.e., each in a unit of hounds, move one unit of hounds up (leaving the character where they are) fly the other character to it. Then move the other unit of hounds and fly the character that stood still to it.

I think I could be breaking a rule in that sequence somewhere, but the only one I know of is that a unit can't move after a character joins it...

Wehrkind wrote:If you wanted to be funny, you could start with the hounds leaving their sorcs at the march, zipping forward. Then the sorcs use their fly move to join the other unit of hounds (or any other unit.) Lather, rinse, repeat until you get stuck in combat or run out of units to join.

I remember reading that a character can't both leave and join the same unit in the same turn, though there's half a chance I'm hallucinating that particular entry ...

Otherwise my experience with discs has been as you guys have concluded. They can join units, but the unit must move @ the disc's M1 if the character chooses to stay with them.

- Salvage

Yeah, I think I might try to pull the same trick with my Noble riding on the Eagle. Save him from the lightning.

Heck, that might even be a crazy option to include him with whatever unit has the bloody choppa. That would give the noble 4 S5 attacks (plus whatever weapon he is carrying) and a Great Eagle with 3 S5 attacks. Maybe just fly him behind the big block of Sea Guard, and then just before they get charged (or charge) have him join. If I am already loosing at that point, I might just do it for the lulz.

Well, I found the section on leaving units, and what I laid out would be illeagal since a character must leave a unit before it moves (i.e. the unit can't just move away from him).

The relevant section:

BRB wrote:Alternatively, a character can leave his unit during the Remaining Moves sub-phase by moving away from the unit before that units makes its own move.

However, this shows that they can join another unit with that move

BRB wrote:When leaving a unit, the character reverts to his normal rules for movement... He can even join another unit as part of the same move if his controlling player wishes...

So it works for one character alternating between two units! But not for two swapping places . I suppose it will also work if I join both characters to one of the units, and move them together to the other unit.

This was all on page 101 of the mini-rulebook, by the way (frustratingly not listed in the index).

Yeah, I guess it's along the lines of "in order to leave a unit, the Character must move. Since he gets one move/phase, he must either enter another unit or stay by himself for a turn".

...RiTides, if you had to save one character, who would it be?

Wait wait, I know this one... you save the mother, because you can make another child, and have fun doing it.

My wife drove that lesson home a long time ago.

Have you had a chance to practice the leapfrog strategy yet?

Not yet- unfortunately my usual gaming friends don't like attending 'Ard Boyz, and I can't very well break out my monster list against their friendlies

WS and WK- I think I'll try to do both! I.e., put them both in a unit of hounds, move them to the other, then move them back. It seems highly preferable to being stuck moving 2" that first turn, in case I need to get into range to cast something...