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Morning all, Played a game last night, and as usual (it's a tradtion, or an old charter, or something...) there were a few points we weren't clear on, so again I turn to the font of knowledge that is Dakka for assistance. Here's what we got stuck with -

1. LoS - is it blocked by a unit on your side e.g. Marine Librarian wants to fire Blood Lance at an Ork unit, but Marine unit C is between them - is LoS blocked, does the target get a cover save (for regular shooting) etc?

2. Does a pintle mounted TL boltgun follow the Rapid Fire weapon rules if the vehicle moves (2 shots at 12"only)?

3. When in CC with a dreadnought, when can combat be declared over? My Daemon Prince immobilised and destroyed all a dread's CC weapons last night, and we agreed it was for all intents and purposes out of action, but is this correct or is a vehicle destroyed result required before the other unit can leave CC?

Thank ye...

Archroy wrote:1. LoS - is it blocked by a unit on your side e.g. Marine Librarian wants to fire Blood Lance at an Ork unit, but Marine unit C is between them - is LoS blocked, does the target get a cover save (for regular shooting) etc?

Blood Lance does not need LoS to be fired, as you don't fire at the ork unit, but simply in its direction. Cover applies as normal.

2. Does a pintle mounted TL boltgun follow the Rapid Fire weapon rules if the vehicle moves (2 shots at 12"only)?

Weapons are not limited by infantry movement rules, only by vehicle movement rules. So you may fire at max range after moving a vehicle.

3. When in CC with a dreadnought, when can combat be declared over? My Daemon Prince immobilised and destroyed all a dread's CC weapons last night, and we agreed it was for all intents and purposes out of action, but is this correct or is a vehicle destroyed result required before the other unit can leave CC?

You have to destroy it, as any destroyed DCCW and an immobilized only subtract 1 Attack each. There should be no walker with less than 1 Attack after everything is destroyed. Also note that any further weapon destroyed or immobilized result will cause the dread to be wrecked.

Jidmah - not quite correct on 2)

Vehicles all have the "Relentless" USR, which means they dont count as having moved when it comes to which type of weapon they can fire. What DOES matter is how far they have moved, at all, as to how many weapons they can fire.

So a bolter mounted on a rhino can always fire at 24", assuming it is allowed to fire at all.

As for 1) - LOS is only blocked if it is actually BLOCKED, i.e. get your eyes down and see if you can see anything. Very difficult for us to determine if you can or not on a forum!

Thanks for the advice. The info re LoS and Blood Lance is helpful too...

As far as No. 1 goes, perhaps blocked wasn't the right term; maybe obscured would be a better choice. A unit can always fire through other members of the same unit, but we're not sure how the rules apply to another of your own units. Using a more conventional example, if Marine unit A shoots at Ork unit B, but Marine unit C is between them, depending on LoS, could unit C prevent A from firing, or give B a cover save if only partially obscured etc...

I realise this may be Janet & John stuff, but we're pretty inexperienced players, and want to get things right...

If you can see them you can shoot at them. If you are shooting through another unit you wiull always give a cover save, unless the target is a MC / Vehicle whcih needs to actually be 50% covered.

TLOs simply means: if you can see them you can shoot them. Have a look at what counts as "visible" (main body, arms and legs, head, etc) and, if you can see it you can shoot it.

As long as you can see any part of any model's body in the other unit, you may shoot it.

As long as any part of the other model's body is behind anything other than a model of your own unit, that model is in cover. If more than 50% of the models in a unit are in cover, the unit is in cover and they can use their cover save.

That said, it's quite rare for regular(non-vehicle) units to completely hide another unit.

Jidmah - remember it is different for vehicles and MCs, who must be physically obscured - it isnt sufficient to simply shoot through another unit.

Yeah, but marines and orks usually are neither. Except for that silly dread knight of course.

Dreadnoughts? Rhinos?

Makes a big difference to an ork shooting a rokkit at the rhino!

Nah, he'll miss either way

I didn't include vehicles and mc because he said he was shooting at orks, but you are, of course, right that they don't follow regular rules for determining if they are in cover.

I was including "orks" to mean anything from the codex. And you nromally see a dread or Kan or two in the lists

Well, that indeed would be wrong because kanz are not orks

OK, you normally see a DeffDread then

Besides, deff dreads are usually more concerned with buzzsawing you to the face.