Space Marines 1500 pts, how does this look?

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**Blue_Cypher**

Hi just after some advice on my codex space marine list for this evening

HQ
Chaplain in Terminator armour + Storm Bolter

Elites
5 Man Assault Termintors TH/SS
5 Man Assault Terminators LC (will be in Landraider with Chaplain)
Dreadnought with Multimelta + Fist

Troops
10 Man Tac Squad with Plasma cannon + Flamer
10 Man Tac Squad with Plasma cannon + flamer

Heavy Support
Landraider with Lascannons + Extra armour
Vindicator with Siege Shield
Vindicator with Siege Shield

Thats 1500 bang on
I was going to put the LC termies into the landraider with the chaplain and set them to go for enemy troops, while the thunders hammers walk behind the landraider whilst being outflanked by my vindis, hence why they need siege shields incase of terrain, that should keep my hammers safe i would imagine and all fire would be concentrated on my tanks. The dreadnought is there to confuse the enemy abit as it can be deadly to vehicles or infantry so the other player will have to make a choice if he shoots at that or my landraider.

What do you think?

**cassius**

Hi
You are lacking long range fire support, so deploy aggressively.
And put all the terminators in one unit, and combat squad. That way you can mix and match LC and TH/SS if needed.
Switch siege shield for dozer blades on both Vidicators, so you can free up 10 points for a MultiMelta on the Landraider

I'm guessing that you own the models, if this is a planned list for purchase, I would only do 5 terminators with a mix of LC and SS/TH, and spend 200 points on rhinos for tac squads, put the landraider under dedicated transport for terminators, and add another heavy support choice, or fast attacks.

My 10 cents

**Eyclonus**

Just take the Landraider as dedicated transport.

Need Mobile Scoring, get at least one transport on one of the Tac Squads, and consider another Scoring unit instead of one of LC Terminator units/half the terminator squad.

Unfortunately the Chaplain can't take a stormshield, so keep him at the back during assaults.

And before you make the usual protest that LCs give the unit nice initiative attacks, an important thing to remember is that 5++ saves are actually quite terrible, its why we take the TH/SS build so much because the damn thing doesn't die.

**Blue_Cypher**

Thx for the input guys, i know siege shields make it so you automatically pass dangerous terrain tests (which i though was all terrain for tanks) so what do dozer blades do?

Also the point of the LC with the chaplain in the landraider is so they get protection there and when charging in they get 23 attacks from the charge with reroll to hit and 20 of them also get reroll to wound, so against say a tac squad you can pretty much say good bye to the whole squad including that sergeant with the powerfist before he gets the strike!

**Eyclonus**

The problem is that you'll kill the squad in one assault phase, this is tactically bad, the idea is to cripple them in the turn you assault and then finish them the turn after, that way the unit avoids shooting damage and can move more freely to start/enter more combats.

Also with Orks, you won't stop the PK Nob, and because the Chaplain is an independant character he will get picked out to remove his buffs.

Landraiders aren't immune to damage, against a shooting heavy army in Tournaments it will get the first 2 turns relatively well, but after that its survival rate drops off as Turn 3 is usually when non-openning gambit melta is in range. The other reason I say this is Manticores. If a Guard player pops the LR with a PasQuisher then a Manticore will eat the squad, especially if he gets a 3/5-6.

**Blue_Cypher**

Ok thx for the input there Eyclonus, its just a mini tournament in shop, how about this for a list then, its similar but with some changes you were thinking about.

HQ
Captain – Bike + Relic Blade - 165

Elites
Assault Terminators – TH/SS – 200
Landraider (Dedicated Transport) – extra armour - 265
Dreadnought – Multimelta + Fist – 105

Troops
5 Man Bike Squad – Power weapon - 155
10 Man Tac Squad – Plasma Cannon + Flamer – 175
10 Man Tac Squad – Plasmacannon – 175

Heavy Support
Vindicator – – 115
Vindicator – - 115

1470pts

so i still got 30pts left to spend then

**Eyclonus**

Add a flamer to the other tac squad, its free so always do it.

30 points?

- STORMSHIELD THE COMMANDER!

Or

- Put a Heavy Flamer on the Dread, and 2 meltaguns on the bike squad.

Both really help out, either by making your commander bastard hard to die, or making your dread able to prevent a WFB style tarpit situation by burning a chunk out first, this is essential against Boyz or IG Power Blobs. The 2 Meltaguns help as the Bike squad is actually lame at melee. Meltaguns help to get more shooting wounds in and help the unit destroy vehicles.

Good luck in the tournament.

Also for reference I have an event coming up and am considering one of these two: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/357429.page

**Blue_Cypher**

Just thought i would let everyone know i won with the first original list last night against a tank heavy imperial guard player, it was anhialation and i whooped him 8 kill points to 3!

Lost a vindicator, Landraider (after it got my LC termies in) and my LC termies, but my termies took 2 rounds of his whole army shooting and killed 2 command squads a vet squad and a troop squad so cant complain

**mercer**

Too many big units the Terminators and Land Raiders are costing 900 points leaving not enough troops. A smart player would take out those Land Raiders then deal with the troops leaving the remaining armour and Terminators to foot slog.

If you want Terminators at this points level consider two Librarians with two Terminator squads; Librarians take gate of infinity and can travel about without expensive Land Raiders. Get teleporter homers on the sgts so you don't scatter.

**Blue_Cypher**

So you would leave the vindicators alone?
They are great at killing anything really so everyone shoots at them letting my termies get where they need to be, and if they dont shoot at the vindis i am guranteed to do some damage with them.

**mercer**

Vindicators are pretty cool and great for supporting advancing Rhinos or Razorbacks.

**scubasteve04**

Blue_Cypher wrote:Hi just after some advice on my codex space marine list for this evening

HQ
Chaplain in Terminator armour + Storm Bolter

Elites
5 Man Assault Termintors TH/SS
5 Man Assault Terminators LC (will be in Landraider with Chaplain)
Dreadnought with Multimelta + Fist

Troops
10 Man Tac Squad with Plasma cannon + Flamer
10 Man Tac Squad with Plasma cannon + flamer

Heavy Support
Landraider with Lascannons + Extra armour
Vindicator with Siege Shield
Vindicator with Siege Shield

Thats 1500 bang on
I was going to put the LC termies into the landraider with the chaplain and set them to go for enemy troops, while the thunders hammers walk behind the landraider whilst being outflanked by my vindis, hence why they need siege shields incase of terrain, that should keep my hammers safe i would imagine and all fire would be concentrated on my tanks. The dreadnought is there to confuse the enemy abit as it can be deadly to vehicles or infantry so the other player will have to make a choice if he shoots at that or my landraider.

What do you think?

Drop the Dreadnought, and drop the extra armor on the predator. This gives you 120pts to spend.

You can now get two rhinos and two powerfists for your tactical squads. Also, drop the Plasmacannons down to missile launchers, and give them meltaguns. Should be Missile, Melta, Powerfist, Rhino.

**mercer**

You don't put power fists in Tactical Squads because you should combat squad them and 5 Marines do not win combat.

**scubasteve04**

mercer wrote:You don't put power fists in Tactical Squads because you should combat squad them and 5 Marines do not win combat.

A. In annihilation games, you don't combat squad to preserve kill points.

B. Tactical squads are great at assaulting vehicles with anti-tank grenades, and with a powerfist you double the squads ability to kill vehicles.

C. In a MSU enviroment, marine armies tend to take 5 man marine squads (razorspam ect). Having the powerfist gives you a huge edge against other 5 man marine squads with no CC upgrade.

D. Gives you the ability to instakill most independant characters.

**mercer**

1. True, but you move and shoot with the meltagun you cannot fire the heavy weapon which means either one of those guns probably isn't firing because of the idea. Plus I wouldn't also worry about a game type you will play 1/3 of the time.

2. 4 krak grenades and a power fist is medicore at assaulting vehicles then whatever you take out a unit inside will blwo those 5 men away or something else will. All you're doing is trading one point for another. Also, squads should/will be in Rhinos so you can't assault anyway.

3. Yes I know, I play Razor Spam Angels, anyway, as mentioned, you don't put a power fist in because you strike last and cannot assauilt out of the transport. Not many people are going to stand there and let you assault them.

4. True on that unless the I.C hasn't killed you first who tends to have higher initiative more attacks some form of a power weapon and often comes attached with another unit.

That's why you don't have power fists in 5 man squads. Now, if was playing Blood Angels with a Priest and power weapon you're talking a different ball game.

**avondale**

As it is already said you are lacking long range weapons my suggestion? add a devastator squad with a couple of lascannons, a plasma cannon, and a missile launcher, with that you got a couple of powerful long range weapons, a troop killer and gun that can kill most troops if used right and kill most light armoured vehicles.

**Asherian Command**

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