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My buddy rolls dice amazingly well. I don't. In our last game, I said, "I wish I could just roll average." He said, "I'd be fine with that."

I got to thinking, and created 2 average dice tables. I have used them a couple times, and the amazing thing is that there is still randomness in the game, but you can play MUCH faster.

The tables are set up to take the number of shots or attacks, then based on the to hit, they give you the hits, then you slide over to the strength toughness comparison and take the wounds number. So look at the ranged attack table, BS4 22 shots with a S4 weapon vs a T3 unit, you look in the -1 column and see that the attack yeilds 9.8 wounds. If that is the only weapon shooting you then roll for the last wound. You get the 9 wounds, but on a 1d6 roll of 2+, you get the 10th wound. Those last wounds work like this: .1 to .2 needs a 6+, .21 to .4 needs a 5+, .41 to .6 needs a 4+, .61 to .8 needs a 3+, .81 to .9 needs a 2+. So you only roll for the last wound. If you have 3 types of weapons shooting, then add the 3 wound results, and if you still have a decimal, roll for that last wound. If you have weapons that beat armor, then keep those seperate, and roll for those decimals seperate.

On higher numbers of attacks or shots, I skipped and went by 5's. So for 48 shots, use 45 and 3 and add the results. The math works out the same.

So now you have the number of wounds as a whole number. Go over to the table that has a W column. That is the number of wounds. Slide over to the correct save column, and that number is the number of DEAD models. Again roll for the last model if there is a decimal.

So now we have to deal with rerolls. Basically you always roll 1d6 to determine the decimal, then take anything that needs a reroll back into the table. Rerolling hits means look at the number under the BS. That is the number of hits. Roll for the decimal, then subtract from the original shots, those are the misses, so use that number as shots going back through the table. Total the wounds from the hits and the rerolled hits, and roll for the decimal, then go to the wounds table. Fortune and FNP means you go through the wounds table twice. Doom means you subtract the number of wounds generated, and subtract that from the hits, and use that number to enter the table from the hits column instead of the shots or attacks column.

Scatter dice, running, difficult terrain, leadership checks, ability checks, and low rate of fire weapons stay as regular dice rolls. You can figure all that out yourself. I play Eldar, and have lots of BS3 TL Scatter Laser weapons. Average dice are 3 hits out of 4 shots. Based on the toughness of the target, I just roll for the last wound, then my opponent rolls for the last armor save.

Rending maybe should happen regular, or divide the wounds by 6, and roll for the decimal.

It really is easy, once you get the hang of it, and you still have the back and forth effect of rolling with the last wounds or saves.

One thing I have found is people will start making their decisions on what to shoot based on the table. We have made a house rule, that the opposing player looks at and uses the table, during each player's turn. It is kind of like premeasuring. You are not allowed to consult the table when you determine your targets.


Try it out one time, and let me know if I can improve the table. Also, if there are effects I have not thought of, that need to be addressed, let me know.

Intriguing, will have a look-see when home.

But I like dice.

I find people that roll well like to roll dice. Fine. Would you then allow your opponent to use the table? They are guarunteed average rolls, and all critical rolls like leadership etc. are still rolled.

In fact, maybe a house rule would be that the opponent could always ask the player to roll dice rather than use the table. I think you can agree ahead of time, what to use the table for, and stick to it. Going on and off the table at your whim just messes up the flow. I don't think it can mess up the game, because you might be screwing yourself, by not taking the average

this idea of "rolling dice well" is nonsense. seriously, chart the results of rolled dice over a long enough period and you will see that your results are just as random and evenly distributed as anyone else's. The idea that someone is "lucky" or "unlucky" purely psychological. eg, people who consider themselves to be lucky are positive, who focus on their successes and ignore their failures, unlucky people are vice-versa. This has been proven by analysis.

April Fools' to you as well!

seejay wrote:this idea of "rolling dice well" is nonsense. seriously, chart the results of rolled dice over a long enough period and you will see that your results are just as random and evenly distributed as anyone else's. The idea that someone is "lucky" or "unlucky" purely psychological. eg, people who consider themselves to be lucky are positive, who focus on their successes and ignore their failures, unlucky people are vice-versa. This has been proven by analysis.

I agree with your premise. Just like I have a freind that always seems to roll well, I also have a friend that always seems to roll poorly. Psychological or not, it does affect the enjoyment of our games. The point of the thread is not a discussion of probability, but the development of a method to play 40k faster.

It is also a great way to play test armies.

seejay wrote:this idea of "rolling dice well" is nonsense. seriously, chart the results of rolled dice over a long enough period and you will see that your results are just as random and evenly distributed as anyone else's. The idea that someone is "lucky" or "unlucky" purely psychological. eg, people who consider themselves to be lucky are positive, who focus on their successes and ignore their failures, unlucky people are vice-versa. This has been proven by analysis.

The problem is "over a long enough period". Typically a game is not a long enough period, and probably not even a lot of games make up for a statistically significant number of rolls. It is indeed possible to have a bad streak of luck, especially since a single "bad" roll can weigh more on the results of the game than a very long string of average rolls (IE: your last contesting model fails his save and dies, losing you the game).

Also it is, though of course very unlikely, possible to roll an absolutely horrendous amount of "bad rolls" for a very long time, still not contradicting any law of statistics or probability. This would be what we call "bad luck".

Finally, most dice do not really roll with a uniform distribution of probability, and are in fact skewed towards rolling 1. Add to that the fact that a gaming table is rarely a smooth and flat surface.

Imho average rolls for mass numbers is a good idea, if the opponent is ok with that. single rolls should be still rolled separately, for the fact that otherwise it takes a lot away from the risk of some tactics, since you'd know the results before hand.

ArmyC wrote:

I agree with your premise. Just like I have a freind that always seems to roll well, I also have a friend that always seems to roll poorly. Psychological or not, it does affect the enjoyment of our games. The point of the thread is not a discussion of probability, but the development of a method to play 40k faster.

It is also a great way to play test armies.

Why not go a step further, using averages and the army lists you can decide who wins before the game!!! That would save you soo much time.



Getting a crap roll or a great roll that effects the game is what makes the game exciting.

Melchiour wrote:
Why not go a step further, using averages and the army lists you can decide who wins before the game!!! That would save you soo much time.

Getting a crap roll or a great roll that effects the game is what makes the game exciting.

Not for me. I don't get to play often enough, or against enough variety of player for things to even out. When I get to play 1 game in 3 weeks time, a bad streak of luck can screw up an evening that I have looked forward to for weeks.

Using the table to work through the drudgery of counting dice, rolling, chasing dice across the floor, counting hits, rolling, counting wounds, then my buddy, counts out his dice, rolls, etc. Just try the table for most of the rolls. You still roll for single shots, and other not shooting/close combat effects.

Melchiour wrote:Why not go a step further, using averages and the army lists you can decide who wins before the game!!! That would save you soo much time.

just go on a forum and ask, there are plenty of opinionated moro...err people more than willing to insult you and your army and point out who will win because they said so.

I played a game last night and the rule was any ranged or melee attack using 5 or more dice could use the table.

Sometimes we rolled and sometimes we took the average and moved on. It sped up the game, but to my mind didn't take anything away from the drama. At one point, I had 3 units of Guarcdian jet bikes shooting at marines. 12 TL shots equals 4.8 wounds. 1st squad shot, and I rolled a 4 to get the extra wound. That meant 2.3 marines die. He rolled to save the 3rd, and failed. Then a 2nd Guardian squad shot. I rolled a 5, and he failed to save. His 10 man squad was down to 4 guys. It had been doomed by the farseer by the way.

At that point I was going to shoot the 3rd squad at the same unit, and my opponent said to roll as normal. I did and ended up killing 2.

Friendly game, and lots of fun.