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So I've finally got enough stuff together for a good 1500 point Kan Wall list but am having some trouble running it (I'm still a very new player). I'm mostly running into issues facing Whirlwinds, Dragonfire Rounds etc.. that negates my cover saves.

Since the Kan Wall relies mostly on cover - what, if any, are some good tactics when facing something like this?

The List I plan on running is:

Big Mek w/KFF
Big Mek w/KFF

3x Killa Kans
3x Killa Kans
3x Killa Kans

29x Boyz - 1 Nob w/PK and BP
29x Boyz - 1 Nob w/Pk and BP
10x Boyz - 1 Nob w/PK and BP w/ Trukk (Ram)

10x Lootas

1x Deffkopta w/TL Rokkit and Buzzsaw
1x Deffkopta w/TL Rokkit and Buzzsaw

I have a very similar Ork list and here is what I have found....
With vehicle based guns that are negating it, I would suggest getting your Deffkoptas in there as quickly as possible to hit them with the Buzzsaw and hopefully at least destroy the weapon. Even against non-vehicle units, getting the koptas in there to tie them up until your other units get close can be useful. Just one or two rounds less of shooting can mean the difference between a big bad Waaaaagggghhhhh and just a little blip on the radar.

you really just have to accept the casualities.

your Coptas can try and head the threat off, but it isn't a garunteed thing.

I think you best hope is basically close up, allowing your mek to get your boyz a cover save, although templates can then be horrific if if they hit in a bad place. Devil and the deep blue sea really.

I would drop the truck as 1 ork truck will die every single game without fail leaving you with a squad that can no longer choose its fights and due to its size will go down to plain old bolter fire.

I would also split the lootas into 2 squads of 5 for more target selection options the chance to set up crossfire and to help minimise the ld 7 issues this squad has.

Jubear wrote:I would drop the truck as 1 ork truck will die every single game without fail leaving you with a squad that can no longer choose its fights and due to its size will go down to plain old bolter fire.

I would also split the lootas into 2 squads of 5 for more target selection options the chance to set up crossfire and to help minimise the ld 7 issues this squad has.

I was mainly going to take the Trukk in reserve and use it for objectives.

As for the Lootas, I've seem lots of people recommend running them in squads of 5, just didn't realize why until now.

5-man squads of lootas are great. By dropping the trukkboyz, you should be able to scrounge up enough pts for another loota squad as well as a deffkopta, maybe tinkering with some upgrades along the way.

Also, rokkitz on the kanz are invaluable. Remember, a shaken/stunned whirlwind is a useless whirlwind! Rokkits have often saved me from dangerously close dreadnoughts, ravagers, or even some MCs if you have enough of 'em.

Dodgywop wrote:

Jubear wrote:I would drop the truck as 1 ork truck will die every single game without fail leaving you with a squad that can no longer choose its fights and due to its size will go down to plain old bolter fire.

I would also split the lootas into 2 squads of 5 for more target selection options the chance to set up crossfire and to help minimise the ld 7 issues this squad has.

I was mainly going to take the Trukk in reserve and use it for objectives.

As for the Lootas, I've seem lots of people recommend running them in squads of 5, just didn't realize why until now.

I also advise doing the 2 groups of 5 lootas, as it tends to work out better for me in my games. In most cases both units can usually fire at the same target anyway if you decide you need to.

As for the trukk for objectives, I might suggest a squad of gretchin (mid to large sized) instead for objectives on your side. It's cheaper, it allows you to just march all your boys across the table at farther objectives, and its arguably a little tougher to take down than a single trukk depending on placement

ork_smash wrote:

Dodgywop wrote:

Jubear wrote:I would drop the truck as 1 ork truck will die every single game without fail leaving you with a squad that can no longer choose its fights and due to its size will go down to plain old bolter fire.

I would also split the lootas into 2 squads of 5 for more target selection options the chance to set up crossfire and to help minimise the ld 7 issues this squad has.

I was mainly going to take the Trukk in reserve and use it for objectives.

As for the Lootas, I've seem lots of people recommend running them in squads of 5, just didn't realize why until now.

I also advise doing the 2 groups of 5 lootas, as it tends to work out better for me in my games. In most cases both units can usually fire at the same target anyway if you decide you need to.

As for the trukk for objectives, I might suggest a squad of gretchin (mid to large sized) instead for objectives on your side. It's cheaper, it allows you to just march all your boys across the table at farther objectives, and its arguably a little tougher to take down than a single trukk depending on placement

+1 my thoughts exactly

Split the Lootas up, but otherwise yeah, just suck the casualties. With your Boy mobs at 30 strong, you're not going to be that afraid of a Whirlwind. It's cover-negating shot is only S4. Unless you really group your Orks tight, a direct pie-plate will hit about 7-8 Orks, and wound 50% of them. So you're talking 3-4 casualties. As Orks... those are casualties you can laugh at. Be more careful about weapons that negate cover saves against your Killa Kans.

Kinda just messin but....5 stormboyz suicide run with Zagstruk to take out WW or other vehicles that threaten the green tide

I use lootas in my army to reach out and touch things that need to go before my kan wall can get there, and that usually takes care of such threats. Either that or those things are shooting at my lootas instead of the rest of my army, which also gets around the problem.

My experience with a Kan Wall is that it's best at close to medium range. Vehicles like a Manticore, Hydra, or Whirlwind can launch long range, cover denying (Hydra or WW) hits, which take advantage of the fact that for the most part, all you can do is walk across the board until you get into range with your rokkits and/or shootas.

I run what I think is a fairly effective Shooty Kan Wall. The things that help mitigate the biggest weaknesses of a Kan Wall are hard hitting, mobile units such as:

Biker Warboss
Deffkoptas
Kommandos with Snikrot

And hard hitting long ranged units, aka Lootas.

If you drop the Trukk and Boyz, you can upgrade your Big Mek to a Warbiker Boss, add in another Deffkopta. Split your lootas into 2 units of 5, then drop 9 shoota boys from each mob and you can get 2 units of min sized grots.

Warbiker Warboss - 150
KFF Mek - 85
20 Shoota Boyz, Nob, PK, BP, 2 Big Shoota - 170
20 Shoota Boyz, Nob, PK, BP, 2 Big Shoota - 170
10 Grot, Runtherder - 40
10 Grot, Runtherder - 40
5 Loota - 75
5 Loota - 75
Deffkopta, Rokkits, Buzz - 70
Deffkopta, Rokkits, Buzz - 70
Deffkopta, Rokkits, Buzz - 70
3 Killa Kans, Rokkits - 150
3 Killa Kans, Rokkits - 150
3 Killa Kans, Rokkits - 150

Total - 1465
This leaves 35 points for more boyz, grotz, a flamer on your mek, etc. You'll have alot more tactical flexibility. Alternatively, you could run 2 Koptas and 3 units of 5 lootas and still have 30 points left.

A Deffkopta with a Biker Boss is very powerful. It's a unit with effectively 2 T6 models and a 4+ cover save, and you can take str8/9 hits on the warboss to avoid ID of the Kopta, str10 hits on the kopta to avoid ID on the WB.

The Grotz can be used as side-screening units to prevent flankers from hitting your lootas, and as objective holders.

It also means you won't have so many boyz to make fat, juicy targets for his WW.

JC how would you play the Biker boss in that army...Dont think im knockin on just kinda curious wat ur tactics are


Automatically Appended Next Post:
JC how would you play the Biker boss in that army...Dont think im knockin on just kinda curious wat ur tactics are

Alot of how I use the warboss depends on the opponents list, the mission/deployment, and who goes first.

If I'm going first against a mechanized army, I'll attach the warboss to the spare unit of boys and let the deffkoptas do their scout thing. He can then split off on turn 2 or 3 to wreck up the place on his own.

If I'm going second, I will attach him to a unit of boyz, keep a deffkopta near, and reserve the other pair. On Turn two, I'll make a break in the kan wall so both can move up as a unit and get an assault off.

I've also started with the boss and kopta on a far flank on T1 as a unit when going second. This gives me a tough tank killing unit to hit them in the side on T2 or T3. Any fire directed at them is hits my Kans aren't taking, and vice versa.

A Biker Warboss is as close as you can get to being an MC without actually being an MC. He's an aboslute beast, especially against tanks. The only things I avoid engaging with him are MC's with a lot of attacks and deathstars with lots of PW. Paired with a deffkopta, his durability to shooting goes up considerably.

The biggest disadvantage to a Kan Wall is that it's slow. It's as slow as you can get for any army, being a primarily foot based army. Deffkoptas and a Biker Boss help to make up for this by giving you some hard hitting mobility.

Yes the kan wall is slow but it moves together as one big army. Once you start adding faster elements it takes away for the flow I find. A biker boss by itself taking off ahead of the army with little aid would not last very long I would think. I could be wrong.

He, like the Deffkoptas, should be used strategically and not just boosted forward indescriminately. He can easily stick with the boyz until the Kan Wall reaches your opponents line if you feel he's at too much risk otherwise.

On the other hand, if you move him up ahead of your wall by a turn, he's a huge threat that can't be ignored. Any shooting and/or CC against him is less stuff that can hurt your cans. With T6, weapons that would be effective against him would also be effective against your Kans. He's got a built in KFF save, he's T5 base so hard to ID for most armies, he's T6 with his bike so small arms or normal melee are unlikely to hurt him.

Say he charges a 10 man tactical squad with a melta gun, ML, and Pfist. The tacticals go first, hitting on a 4, wounding on a 6, a 4+ armor save, with a maximum of 9 attacks. On average, that's only a 3/8 chance to cause an unsaved wound. Then the pfist goes, with a 4+ to hit, 2+ to wound, a 5++ cybork save, and 2 attacks, that's only a 5/9 chance to cause a wound on average. This totals up to slightly less than one wound caused (again, on average) to your warboss.

In exchange, you've got 6 attacks hitting on 3's, wounding on 2's, and causing ID, for 10/3 wounds (on average), or three dead marines. Now you're stuck in, taking even less damage, and also preventing those str8 ranged attacks from hitting your kans.

A Warboss is an IC, so even if you keep him with the boys, they can offer only limited protection once in CC due to attack allocation.

A HUGE part of playing a successful Ork army is target saturation. When everything is a priority target, nothing is a priority target. When I can control priority targeting, such as by having my Warboss move up a turn earlier than the Kan Wall will hit my opponents lines, then I'm controlling the flow of the game.

Give the list above a spin on Vassal using my advice from this thread and let me know what you think.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, another thing to consider is that if you have a lot of boys mobs behind your Kan wall, they won't able be able to engage. They will either be too far back, or be limited in assault range due to the presence of other mobs. The warboss takes boys who would be stuck in the back and turns their points into a force that can get stuck in before or with the Kan Wall.

You have definately made some great points. Never tried it myself, mainly because I don't have any bikes. Let me know how it goes

When it comes to cover, you have a lot of things to do to maximize what to do.

Below are some stategies and options that can help. Some of these stradegies may be redundant, but it needs to be organized.

A) Get into assualt ASAP
*You could drop one Big MeK, and take Ghazzghull (that way if you run turn 1, you should be able to assualt by turn 2).
*Buzzkoptas, would be useful here to tie up his Range units

B) Take out your opponents range stuff
*Lootas, Buzzkoptas, & Kommandos, help and draw fire

C) Negate as much damage as possible.
*Get a TAC tool and Maximize spacing on your dudez ( 2" spacing between each model will make sure you get no more than 4-5 dudes per Large blast template).
*Mad Dok, isn't a bad option either for one unit of boyz to have FNP

There are certainly more

So played a 1500 point game last night and just dropped the truck and filled out another squad of 30 boyz. I won.

Congratulations. Did the advice here help?

Heffling wrote:Congratulations. Did the advice here help?

Yeah, splitting the Lootas into 2 separate groups of 5 and not taking the trukk definitely helped. It was an Eldar player so there wasn't anything that negated my cover. I'll have to run this against some Spess Mahrines and see how I do.