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It states that a monolith doesnt get destroyed if it deepstrikes within 1" of the enemy. Instead it moves them as far as needed out of the way.

Really cheesy tactic question:

Can I use this to deepstrike my monolith in the middle of a castled imperial guardsman player and make him scoot all of his tanks out of the way?

I edited the pull to cover the actual question at hand.

Yes.

Tanks are models too They move.

Expect them to dig out argument that you still have to take mishap unless you roll a destroyed result though, due to the archaic wording of the Monolith's rule (back when if you mishapped you died, period).

That said, it's not necessarily a good idea to do so, depending on the enemy force

Ascalam wrote:Yes.

Tanks are models too They move.

Expect them to dig out argument that you still have to take mishap unless you roll a destroyed result though, due to the archaic wording of the Monolith's rule (back when if you mishapped you died, period).

That said, it's not necessarily a good idea to do so, depending on the enemy force

Gauss Flux arc is so much better when hitting chimera side armor.

Too true

Rear is even better, especially on vindicator walls like my usual SW opponent likes building

Ascalam wrote:Too true

Rear is even better, especially on vindicator walls like my usual SW opponent likes building

Although do you have to be able to place the model before rolling to scatter? Or can you just pick a point?

Pick a point. Make sure it's not too near scenery (as that can still mishap you) then roll scatter and drop

yea I still make them roll on the chart, 2/3 times its not destroyed after all valid tactic though worth the risk, maybe

Tomb King wrote:

Ascalam wrote:Too true

Rear is even better, especially on vindicator walls like my usual SW opponent likes building

Although do you have to be able to place the model before rolling to scatter? Or can you just pick a point?

That's a debatable point. The rulebook tells you that the first step in deep striking is to place the model on the table. You then roll for scatter.

There's 3 ways to interpret this:

The overly literal approach: You have to be able to physically place the model onto the table. If there is anything between your model and the table, you can't deep strike there. This includes pieces of area terrain, as they aren't the actual table. If you're playing with a battle board, tough luck, the entire table is blocked.

The "I'm an a hole" approach: You have to physically place your model onto the table. If your opponent's models are in the way, you just ignore them and place your model onto the board. Yes, this means the rulebook is granting you permission to crush your opponent's minis into dust.

The reasonable approach: You have to place the model onto to table. But, your opponents minis are in the same location you want to place your model. So, you point to "wobbly model syndrome" and both you and your opponent pretend the two models are occupying the same space. You then proceed to play a fun game where everyone wins.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:yea I still make them roll on the chart, 2/3 times its not destroyed after all valid tactic though worth the risk, maybe

I rule against your comment as the wording seems to go against that kind of a ruling. The destroying part is just half of it. It sas Instead, move any models that are in the way the minimum distance necessary to make space for the monolith. Hate to break it to you but if you move the models then there is no mishap and I wont roll on any chart in a tournament.

Tomb King wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:yea I still make them roll on the chart, 2/3 times its not destroyed after all valid tactic though worth the risk, maybe

I rule against your comment as the wording seems to go against that kind of a ruling. The destroying part is just half of it. It sas Instead, move any models that are in the way the minimum distance necessary to make space for the monolith. Hate to break it to you but if you move the models then there is no mishap and I wont roll on any chart in a tournament.

And then they could turn around and argue with you that it states its not destroyed if they are within 1" when it arrives, but it says nothing about that it doesn't mishap if it lands on them. It actually states it may arrive by deepstrike and isnt destroyed, so then you would have to refer to the DS rules, that states if you have them within 1" or you land on top of them, you take a mishap. The only consolation is if they rolla 1 or 2, its negated, because of the Monoliths special rule.

So the real argument I would have would be what do you do if the Monolith DS's and rolls a 1 or 2 on the table?? Re roll, ignore it, or what??

Galador wrote:

Tomb King wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:yea I still make them roll on the chart, 2/3 times its not destroyed after all valid tactic though worth the risk, maybe

I rule against your comment as the wording seems to go against that kind of a ruling. The destroying part is just half of it. It sas Instead, move any models that are in the way the minimum distance necessary to make space for the monolith. Hate to break it to you but if you move the models then there is no mishap and I wont roll on any chart in a tournament.

And then they could turn around and argue with you that it states its not destroyed if they are within 1" when it arrives, but it says nothing about that it doesn't mishap if it lands on them. It actually states it may arrive by deepstrike and isnt destroyed, so then you would have to refer to the DS rules, that states if you have them within 1" or you land on top of them, you take a mishap. The only consolation is if they rolla 1 or 2, its negated, because of the Monoliths special rule.

So the real argument I would have would be what do you do if the Monolith DS's and rolls a 1 or 2 on the table?? Re roll, ignore it, or what??

I put up a poll for it.

yep, the only mishap that the Monolith ignores is the destroyed result. Roll either of the others and there is no call to move the enemy models as the instead of being destroyed' clause doesn't kick in.

don_mondo wrote:yep, the only mishap that the Monolith ignores is the destroyed result. Roll either of the others and there is no call to move the enemy models as the instead of being destroyed' clause doesn't kick in.

well if its the last turn of the game and it mishaps and rolls to go back to reserves then that would result in a destroyed result. Would it counter this as well then?

Nope, because it's not a destroyed result on the chart.

don_mondo wrote:Nope, because it's not a destroyed result on the chart.

LOL where in the wording of not being destroyed does it mention a chart?

Hmmm, good point. I'll take a look at the rules when I get home to my books, and get back to you. Fair enough?

Tomb King wrote:LOL where in the wording of not being destroyed does it mention a chart?

Where in the wording of not being destroyed does it mention what occurs if it is delayed?

kirsanth wrote:

Tomb King wrote:LOL where in the wording of not being destroyed does it mention a chart?

Where in the wording of not being destroyed does it mention what occurs if it is delayed?

Hence it isnt delayed

Monolith really needs an update

Most of the problem stems from the unit rules being written for 3rd, not 5th...

OK, here's the phrasing in the codex:

"Because of the sheer mass of the Monoltih, it is not destroyed if there are enemy within 1" when it arrives."

OK, so it's not destroyed by landing within a inch of enemy models, so it gets to ignore that one item on the Mishap chart. Nothing permits it to ignore the other two results, just as nothing permits it to avoid rolling on the mishap chart. So, let's say that it is turn 7 and your Monolith mishaps and Delayed is rolled. It goes back into reserves. Is it destroyed by being placed into reserves? No. When the game ends, it is destroyed as a result of still being in reserves, but the actual act of placing it into reserves did not destroy it.

So yep, IMO, nothing changes due to it being the last turn of the game.

Thats cool, but I thought deep striking disallowed shooting unless youre a Land Raider? It doesnt say anything about being able to fire the turn it comes in......

don_mondo wrote:OK, here's the phrasing in the codex:

"Because of the sheer mass of the Monoltih, it is not destroyed if there are enemy within 1" when it arrives."

OK, so it's not destroyed by landing within a inch of enemy models, so it gets to ignore that one item on the Mishap chart. Nothing permits it to ignore the other two results, just as nothing permits it to avoid rolling on the mishap chart. So, let's say that it is turn 7 and your Monolith mishaps and Delayed is rolled. It goes back into reserves. Is it destroyed by being placed into reserves? No. When the game ends, it is destroyed as a result of still being in reserves, but the actual act of placing it into reserves did not destroy it.

So yep, IMO, nothing changes due to it being the last turn of the game.

ok once again. The sheer mass of it is the reason it isnt destroyed but, that same sheer mass can be dissipated or teleported somewhere else rather then where it was suppose to come in at? Seems to contradict itself doesnt it?

Tomb King wrote:

don_mondo wrote:yep, the only mishap that the Monolith ignores is the destroyed result. Roll either of the others and there is no call to move the enemy models as the instead of being destroyed' clause doesn't kick in.

well if its the last turn of the game and it mishaps and rolls to go back to reserves then that would result in a destroyed result. Would it counter this as well then?

Not really. If you roll 1-2 on the mishap table, the unit is destroyed.

If the game ends while it is in reserve, it counts as destroyed, but this would be for victory point purposes.

I dont see how you all are gathering that it mishaps. It has SPECIAL RULES for when it deep strikes. Special rules > General Rules

Because of the sheer mass of the Monoltih, it is not destroyed if there are enemy within 1" when it arrives." Instead, move any models that are in the way the minimum distance necessary to make space for the monolith.

Just because they changed the different results for mishaps doesnt mean the monolith which never mishaped before starts to mishap.

Tomb King wrote:I dont see how you all are gathering that it mishaps. It has SPECIAL RULES for when it deep strikes. Special rules > General Rules

No, it has special rules for when it is destroyed while deep striking. And you have to roll on the mishap chart to see whether it is destroyed or if something else happens to it.

This would be the first place that I have seen someone actually argue that it mishaps.

Tomb King wrote:This would be the first place that I have seen someone actually argue that it mishaps.

How do you play it if the Monolith scatters off the board?

how would it mishap?

it lands, enemy models must move out of 1" of it, so no mishap, it never happened. like gets hot/twin linked

hitting scenery etc will still mishap it.

In 3rd (when the rule was written, and what the rule is intended to mean) if you mishapped by hitting other models you were destroyed. The lith ignored mishaps from doing this, and moved the models instead.

In 5th, destroyed isn't the only option on the table, and therefore people are arguing that it only ignores this if it rolls destroyed on the mishap table.

It's down to your interpretation.

Raw-junkies tend to like to try and nerf the monolith any way they can, and unfortunately on this one they have an argument that can be seen as being supported by the rules in the right light Letter of the rules and all that ;0)

Ascalam wrote:Raw-junkies tend to like to try and nerf the monolith any way they can, and unfortunately on this one they have an argument that can be seen as being supported by the rules in the right light Letter of the rules and all that ;0)

I will try to match your snark and and raise you a snide: That is the point and the definition of RAW.