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Ok, something i have a lot of difficulty with, not me personally but my opponents have for some reason.

Is remembering to do the 25% casualty test after shooting.

Its not that i forget to tell them, i have the GF9 tokens and i put dice next to units that need to take them.


Its that my opponent will mention it in my next turn shooting or in his assault phase or some other time after the shooting phase has ended.


Examples ----- "K, 5 guardsmen dead from the 10 man squad, you turn." I move and shoot other units get to that one and then "oh, hey you need to take a leadership for that unit."

Now i know its in the rues and your supposed to but why should i remember to do something that they should know to do.


Is there anything FAQ of in the BRB that mentions out of turning this??


Im not strict about it usually if its their assault and before they start actual combat and their like hey forgot this unit, ill do it but if they wait on it, why should i help me lose when its in my eyes their job??

So if I understand correctly, you know that you should take a moral check, but you don't like doing it cause your opponent doesn't mention it right away? Or am I misunderstanding you?
Anyway;
Page 44 in the Rulebook:
"A unit losing 25% or more of its models during a single phase must pass a morale check AT THE END OF THAT PHASE, or else they fall back".
So after your opponent is done shooting, do the test right away. Since they are your models I belive it's your responsibility to remember the moral check, it's not very good sportsmanship imo to "forget" to take it

I think shank911 is saying that it is his opponent that sometimes forgets to do it.

I often have to remind an opponent myself that they are due to take such a test and as limbo points out it is for any 25% lose - not just from shooting - it could be from loses when a unit transport explodes and casualties taken.

I had forgotton the 'or else they fall back' clause which I might insist on if an opponent keeps 'forgetting'.

shank911 wrote:Now i know its in the rues and your supposed to but why should i remember to do something that they should know to do.

Im not strict about it usually if its their assault and before they start actual combat and their like hey forgot this unit, ill do it but if they wait on it, why should i help me lose when its in my eyes their job??

Well, real men play by the rules and remind their opponents if they forget things. Losers and cheaters will jump gleefully every time an opponent forgets a shooting phase, a saving throw or an opportunity to charge. You might win a few more games but you'll be a freaking dishonorable creep anyway. Just choose who you'll be and pay up.

Ofc if they do the same to me first I have no compunctions about letting them jump off a bridge - you don't politely remind me, why should I remind you?

How about politely asking your opponent to put two dice next to the unit that has to take the test because, and this is the important part, "otherwise I will forget to have you take the test at the end of the phase"?

See? You are not accusing him of cheating or anything like that. You are pointing out that YOU have a flaw and that it would be nice of him to help you.
Who cares if it is true? You get the result you want.

Of course, you must also place dice next to YOUR models in the same way. And so everybody is kept honest.

I made a habbit of going through any units on the board before ending any three of my phases. That way you don't forget to move or shoot something, and catch all units which require moral tests.

My opponents have a habit of going from the movement phase straight to the assault phase if they don't intend to do a lot of shooting (it means they skip run moves, too, but mostly they aren't fleet armies, so that's more or less irrelevant to them).

I have to stop them, make them do the shooting phase (just so that I can take any morale checks and fallback moves ).

They often forget that many of my units will run away when you shoot at them - I think it's probably because they are used to playing with fearless units in their armies that they forget that fearless troops are not "normal".

Huh?

Your opponent, in HIS turn, goes straight from Movement to Assault and you stop them because YOU have to take Morale tests?
How did those Morale tests come about?

Fall-back moves? In the Shooting phase? Fall back is done in the beginning of the Movement Phase or immediately after failing a Morale test (which isn't taken as there is no shooting).

Something seems odd here.

Regrouping? Duh.

How about simply make a habit that at the end of the shooting phase when you or your opponent is done with the dakkadakka to say "right, let's see which units suffered 25% casualties"?

Also note, that you have to test at the end of all phases. If, for example, a vehicle blows up in movement or assault, any units losing 25% that was not engaged in close combat, will have to test, too.

Jidmah wrote:Regrouping? Duh.

Regrouping doesn't happen in the opponents Shooting Phase either, does it?

I sometimes forget to take morale tests or regroup tests at the start of the phase, or forget to remind my opponent to do so when he also forgets. It's not that uncommon, even if I leave a die or something near a unit to remind me it still sometimes slips my mind.

As with anything I forget (though I don't do it if it benefits me), I ask my opponent if I can go back and do it and ask if they'd like to re-think any moves they've done since then in case it changes their plans in any way. It's not the rules, but they don't cover what to do when rules are forgotten...

What I do if I forget a LD test for 25%, and realize it afterwords, is I give my opponent 3 options to choose from, or to come up with what they think will work better than these 3:

1) take it now, if they fail, run them away as per the rules for the test. (if anything they have done was influenced by this unit being there, I will let them take it back and/or redo it.)
2)Not take the test and continue on as if they didn't need it. (also stress that we do this only if it benefits them more than hurts them, I.E. They can use the unit to get a special rule for their squad if they do something to it, like a Pain Token if they assault and win for DE.)
3)If they end up causing another test this phase, take two tests. If I fail the first one, make two Fall Back moves, as it represented the one I should have taken last time. If I fail the second, fall back once. If I pass both, it represents that I passed the last test and this one.

Granted, some people may not like one or two of these, but I have yet to have anyone not use them, cause usually one of them seems pretty fair to them.

Note: you dont have to make a "regroup" Ld check at the start of the movement phase anymore; you only do it when the unit moves.

This gives you a chance to allow a unit to regroup, e.g. through tankshocking enemies away from within 6" of your fleeing troops.

I have a bunch of markers I printed out (found them somewhere) that say "morale check" "pinned" "fall back" so in either mine or my opponents shooting phase, if a unit take 25% casulaties, we drop a "morale check" marker next to it. Easy to see on the board and easy to remember to take the tests.

I see the rules not that there your models take your test.

I see it as you did the damage you must remember to get them to take it.



But the test isn't the point, its that fact of timing.

There is a period when all test are to be taken.
for shooting phase its at the end, etc for assault.



Ive had a opponent wait till his 2nd shooting phase to do a leadership check on my units,
To make all the same units take two leaderships one for that turn and one for the turn before.


The same follows suit when, my opponent shoots, assaults and it gets into my movement and shooting/assault when they mention that i need to take a leadership for that units thats gonna shoot the Land-raider or their SM squad.


The people i play with are competitive and go to many tournaments and have the rules down.

So why should i cut someone slack that is supposed to know the BRB front and back?
They will pull out any FAQ to help them win but when it comes to their timing for a leadership test i dont think i should take it, they know better.



Once again i dont mind taking the test, i put dice to remember to get my opponents to take theirs, they should do something similar if their gonna forget until later in the game.

I dont mind if its their same turn, but if its the opposite players turn or a full turn or two gone, then it shouldn't be done. Its doing a phase out of turn like doing assault before shooting to me.


We forget innocently sometimes but not so much when its a whole army that's having to take test, and they waited to do them.


Like i said competitive players guys that know their stuff rules,faq, other armies.
Not beginners or a friendly game,i would allow this occasionally.

shank, both you and your opponent are responsible for following the rules. If you remember a unit has to take a morale test, it's your responsibility to make sure that test happens. It doesn't matter if it's for your unit or your opponent's.

Claiming that your opponent is a competitive player and knows the rules does not grant you permission to cheat.

If both you and your opponent honestly forget to make a morale test, then you both need to agree on a way to resolve the issue, as you've both broken the rules. But, actively taking advantage of your opponent's forgetfulness to avoid a mandatory test is unforgivable.

I usually never remember what units of mine are going to have to take a moral test.
I am thinking baout my next turn what to do when to do it etc.

But your missing the point.

The question was for an out of turn moral test.
Because If this allowed, i could 'forget' until last turn and make you take possible 6 moral test in one turn for all the previous turns combined.

The point is that should you be able to do a moral test out of turn from when it should have occurred

I see how this could occur and not supposed to happen.

But some people seem to make it a part of their strategy going into a game that the first two turns theyll forget, and suddenly remember everything that needs to test.

Usually in a tournament a player isnt concerned about their test just what to do next since most tournys are timed you have to make the most use of it.

shank911 wrote:
The question was for an out of turn moral test.
Because If this allowed, i could 'forget' until last turn and make you take possible 6 moral test in one turn for all the previous turns combined.

The point is that should you be able to do a moral test out of turn from when it should have occurred

I see how this could occur and not supposed to happen.

But some people seem to make it a part of their strategy going into a game that the first two turns theyll forget, and suddenly remember everything that needs to test.

Usually in a tournament a player isnt concerned about their test just what to do next since most tournys are timed you have to make the most use of it.

I'd say that this isn't a strategy, it's cheating. And if this concerns you, then make sure that you do your morale checks at the end of the phase they took the 25% casualty. As previously stated, it's both yours and your opponents responsibility to follow the rules, and the rules say to take the test at the end of the phase. Now if both genuinly forgot to take the test, then work something out as people described above.
Also, I don't think any player knows the rule book back-to-back, especially when they're under a time limit.

shank911 wrote:I usually never remember which units of mine are going to have to take a morale test.
I am thinking about my next turn: what to do, when to do it, etc.

But, you're missing the point.

The question was about an out of turn morale test.
Because, if this is allowed, I could 'forget' until the last turn and make you take up to 6 morale tests in one turn for all the previous turns combined.

The point is: should you be forced to do a morale test out of turn from when it should have occurred?

I see how this could occur and it is not supposed to happen.

But, some people seem to make it a part of their strategy. Going into a game, for the first two turns they'll forget, and then suddenly remember everything that needs to test.

Usually, in a tournament, a player isn't concerned about their test. They just what to go next. Since most tournys are timed, you have to make the most of it.

If someone is intentionally delaying morale tests to make them occur in a later turn, that is cheating. The rulebook forbids cheating, so they shouldn't be doing it.

And, you should be paying attention to what happens to your own units. Claiming that you're distracted by thinking about what you're going to do on your turn is no more valid than your opponent claiming he's distracted by thinking about what unit to shoot next. If a morale test didn't occur when it should have, both players are at fault.