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if a unit assaults an opposing unit that is in cover, then the assaulting unit strikes last...

What if the assaulting unit moves into the cover-granting terrain first, in their movement phase, and then assaults while also in the cover? Is that unit no longer "assaulting into cover?"

Correct, if both units start the assault phase IN cover then no penalties are applied.

Deuce11 wrote:if a unit assaults an opposing unit that is in cover, then the assaulting unit strikes last...

What if the assaulting unit moves into the cover-granting terrain first, in their movement phase, and then assaults while also in the cover? Is that unit no longer "assaulting into cover?"

Kinda answers the question, doesn't it?

"if an assaulting unit had to take a difficult or dangerous terrain test during their assault move, all of its models have their Initiative value lowered to 1."

helgrenze wrote:

Deuce11 wrote:if a unit assaults an opposing unit that is in cover, then the assaulting unit strikes last...

What if the assaulting unit moves into the cover-granting terrain first, in their movement phase, and then assaults while also in the cover? Is that unit no longer "assaulting into cover?"

Kinda answers the question, doesn't it?

Depends on interpretation and whether this rule has ever been FAQed, which happens often. I have always played as stated above but i recently heard RAI argument against it saying that the assaulting unit would still strike last because the opposing unit would still be taking cover. And therefore although the assaulting unit is in cover itself, it would still be assaulting into cover. The RAI argument stetches the understanding of "into" a bit but makes sense enough that I thought it may have been FAQed.

biccat wrote:"if an assaulting unit had to take a difficult or dangerous terrain test during their assault move, all of its models have their Initiative value lowered to 1."

This. No matter where you or your opponents are, you'll strike at I1 if you rolled a dice for either one.

Did you take a difficult terrain check when you assaulted? Then I is reduced to 1. It does not matter where you start and assault or end up. In fact, you could start and end the assault out of difficult terrain, and still be I1 if you went through said terrain.

He specifically asked about cover. Not all terrain that gives cover is difficult and/or dangerous. Despite that yes, if you have to take a test then your I is reduced to 1 unless you have some piece of wargear that negates that.

AgnosticGod wrote:Correct, if both units start the assault phase IN cover then no penalties are applied.

Care to provide a page for this rule? I am almost positive no such exemption exists in the official BRB. If you take a Difficult Terrain test, then you strike at I1 when you do not have assault grenades.

Deuce - you are playing sort of 4th edition there.

5th edition has a very simple rule: did you take a Diff / Dang Terrain test when making your assault move? IF the answer is YES then your init is reduced to 1.

I know the rule is called "Assaulting through cover", but it actually has nothing to do with assaulting through cover.

The rule reduces you to I1 if you take a difficult or dangerous terrain test.

If you assault through cover that doesn't count as difficult or dangerous terrain (e.g. tank traps), you are not reduced to I1.

And, if you assault through difficult terrain that is NOT cover (e.g. rocky terrain), you are reduced to I1.


Edit: Multi-ninja!

Doh! Okay, yes I am thinking of 4th Ed. I just checked my BRB and you are totally correct. Nos is right. Only if you have to test for diff/dang do you reduce your init. Sorry for the confusion.

Ok, so quick question.... what about a unit that ignores cover??? Lets say a unit of Eldar Pathfinders (not that you would ever assault with them!) assaults a unit of the other side that is in cover, are they are Init 1??? They do not have plasma grenades, but they ignore difficult terrain, so they don't have to test for it. But anyone else would have to test. How would this be handled??

Thank you all. Yes, on occassion my gaming group and I merge rules from past editions by accident. I think this is one that just went unnoticed for a very long time. Thank you, again. Group think is a bad thing.

Galador wrote:Ok, so quick question.... what about a unit that ignores cover??? Lets say a unit of Eldar Pathfinders (not that you would ever assault with them!) assaults a unit of the other side that is in cover, are they are Init 1??? They do not have plasma grenades, but they ignore difficult terrain, so they don't have to test for it. But anyone else would have to test. How would this be handled??

Galador, I would think that since you do not have to take a diff/dang terrain test you are not init 1. That is how the rule is written.

Agreed.

As pointed out "assaulting through cover" is a very misleading bold section heading because it actually has nothing to with cover at all.

If you ignore cover, such as Harlequins, you do not take a test and therefore do not strike at I1.

I have a quick question that needs clarification on this issue as well.

If I have an Autarch (with plasma grenades)
and a squad of warp spiders(no plasma grenades)
and I assault a squad of Marines in cover (and I take a d/d terrain test)

Do the Autarch's grenades carry through the entire unit? IE Autarch and spiders go first?

or do the Autarch's grenades only effect the Autarch, so the Autarch goes first and the spiders go at I1?

akaean wrote:I have a quick question that needs clarification on this issue as well.

If I have an Autarch (with plasma grenades)
and a squad of warp spiders(no plasma grenades)
and I assault a squad of Marines in cover (and I take a d/d terrain test)

Do the Autarch's grenades carry through the entire unit? IE Autarch and spiders go first?

or do the Autarch's grenades only effect the Autarch, so the Autarch goes first and the spiders go at I1?

Autarch is normal Initiative, while spiders are last
p. 36 "Models equipped with assault grenades..."

Ok.

One further question. Lets assume that the Autarch is also equipped with a banshee mask.

Does this allow the Warp Spiders to go before the marines when charging into cover because the Mask negates the benefit from being in cover?

Once again no, because each banshee wears a mask in their squad, while in this one, it is Just the Autarch.

In addition Banshee Masks are dropped to I1 when charging with no grenades

They negate the defender bonus; there are no defender bonuses any longer, instead the *attacker* has a PENALTY applied.

While true, it's a little deeper than that.

You're still dealing with "always at I10" and "strikes at I1".

Which one wins out?

No, it isnt deeper than that.

I1 wins out because it specifies it overrides all other modifiers, and the banshee mask is a modifier.

hmmm, I guess it just never occured to me that I should be playing it like that :(

RAI is pretty clear that banshee masks are supposed to let me charge into cover and still strike at I10, however I suppose that RAW usually wins out.

I guess I'll clarify it before a match, and if anybody says I can't do it, I'll give em a good stern look and say- well ok then I guess I'll just take more Fire Dragons, and see if they back down lol.

I mean who wouldn't rather play against RAI banshees then more fire dragons...

akaean wrote:hmmm, I guess it just never occured to me that I should be playing it like that :(

RAI is pretty clear that banshee masks are supposed to let me charge into cover and still strike at I10, however I suppose that RAW usually wins out.

I guess I'll clarify it before a match, and if anybody says I can't do it, I'll give em a good stern look and say- well ok then I guess I'll just take more Fire Dragons, and see if they back down lol.

I mean who wouldn't rather play against RAI banshees then more fire dragons...

I prefer the dragons......