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So I just read some of the Death Guard fluff and just fell in love with them pre-heresy. I want to make a list that revolves around their pre-heresyness that will use vanilla marines rules and was wondering if I could get some input as to what should go into the list. I was thinking of using the Typhus model as a replacement for Lysander and having him lead a squad of 5 Terminators, one with a Chainfist but after that I am not to sure as to what to include. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

You want an army that's heavy with troops on foot with very few fast attack options or assualt marines.

I'm also planning a PH DG army and have decided to use the Blood Angels codex (without Red Thirst) so that I can have some c/a Sanguinary Priests giving FNP bubbles. This will make my footslogging marines much more survivable, which fits with the fluff nicely.

Come and check out www.thegreatcrusade.co.uk for a whole load of pre-heresy goodness!

Ilmarinen wrote:I'm also planning a PH DG army and have decided to use the Blood Angels codex (without Red Thirst) so that I can have some c/a Sanguinary Priests giving FNP bubbles. This will make my footslogging marines much more survivable, which fits with the fluff nicely.

So what are you going to sub in for Red Thirst?
'Hatred of the Overseers' maybe? (cant remember exactly what the rulers were called on the DG homeworld)

i like the idea of using the BA codex for survivability and fluff, but all the bases need to be covered IMO

DG are awesome.

Where do these models come from? Kind of semi-related, it's from the Death Guard lexicanum page. I don't recognise the models at all, obviously it's pre-heresy armour, are they conversions or a special release or something...

I think that either Codex: Space Wolves or chaos Space Marines will be your freind here. Before the heresy, Mortarion simply gave every marine a bolter, chainsword and pistol and told them to get on with it rather than breaking them into separate assault squads. These codicies are the only ones that let you represent that wargear configuartion. Plus, they can feild smaller sized termie squads, to better indicate their rareness.
Basically you'll be taking a footslogging marine army, that relies more on weight of numbers than any fancy weaponry. Just how we Death Guard like it ....

seejay wrote:DG are awesome.

Where do these models come from? Kind of semi-related, it's from the Death Guard lexicanum page. I don't recognise the models at all, obviously it's pre-heresy armour, are they conversions or a special release or something...

Conversions, kit-bash. SM Tac, Assault and CSM bits mostly, from what I can tell. Bolters are standard, simple conversion.

mostly standard marine models, but the second one has a khorne berzerker head less the bunny ears and the heavy bolter dude is all chaos

seejay wrote:DG are awesome.

Where do these models come from? Kind of semi-related, it's from the Death Guard lexicanum page. I don't recognise the models at all, obviously it's pre-heresy armour, are they conversions or a special release or something...

Those were featured on the old GW website before the overhaul (and when they actually had a conversion team). It was part of one of the Black Gobbos e-zine articles (and one of my personal favs). It had a bunch of other Pre Heresy conversions, but not all of them were catalogued on Lexicanium, which is a shame.

Those marines in particular were made from a combination of normal CSM, SM Tactical Squad, and Khorne Berserkers. The armour was made with some brass tacs stuck into the armor I think.

seejay wrote:DG are awesome.

Where do these models come from? Kind of semi-related, it's from the Death Guard lexicanum page. I don't recognise the models at all, obviously it's pre-heresy armour, are they conversions or a special release or something...

Those are from Dave Taylor's army.

FW also has some pre-heresy stuff.

Revenent Reiko wrote:

Ilmarinen wrote:I'm also planning a PH DG army and have decided to use the Blood Angels codex (without Red Thirst) so that I can have some c/a Sanguinary Priests giving FNP bubbles. This will make my footslogging marines much more survivable, which fits with the fluff nicely.

So what are you going to sub in for Red Thirst?
'Hatred of the Overseers' maybe? (cant remember exactly what the rulers were called on the DG homeworld)

i like the idea of using the BA codex for survivability and fluff, but all the bases need to be covered IMO

I think he is choosing not to use the special rule. As the 'red thirst' rule is an advantage over a standard marine by some margin, I shouldn't think too many players will deny you the chance to handicap yourself in that regard.

Playing PH you have to self moderate yourself to some extent, if you want to accurately portray an army from that era. People who go in for PH often want as much accuracy as possible, or at least a semblance of it, and if you have an army full of razorbacks, marines in mk7 armour and jetpacks, it kind of begs the question what is the point of making such a modelling project in the first place. Although I concede that plenty of players just want to use the older colour scheme.

Thanks guys, cool beans. I'm a big fan of the DG too, my next planned project is going to be a full chaos army devoted to nurgle featuring renegade IG, nurgle daemons and DG SM. Their fluff is pretty cool, I like the fact that Mortarian technically wasn't tainted by chaos prior to the heresy, he basically just joined the rebels cos he and Horus were BFFs. That arguably makes him even more evil and therefore badass than any other of the chaos-aligned primarchs, since he went evil by choice

Pacific has it right - I'm selectively ignoring things that are unfluffy (like the Red Thirst).

Those are indeed Dave Taylor's Death Guard - he's also done a very nice Garro and an assault marine inspired by an image in Horus Heresy: Collected Visions.

Speaking of - I'd highly recommend this book to anyone wanting to do a (pre-)heresy army - I've got so much inspiration from it.

With regard to the infantryman theme of the DG - it's not quite so simple to say that all DG only had a bolter and combat knife, no transports and no jump packs. Collected Visions has DG tactical squads in rhinos, assault squads, bikers and even a fellsword! There's lot of scope for having interesting units, although massed DG infantry would look awesome!

In the fluff it says no post-heresy death guard has any vehicles whatsoever but on the forgeworld website it has parts to add death guard doors to rhinos and land raiders. Oh well!


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Random question, is there any difference between Death Guard chaos space marines and plague marines? Are the two one and the same?

Im fairly certain that all deathguard are plague marines, but not all plague marines are deathguard. I'm pretty sure thats the only difference.

Given that they were a full Legion, it's ridiculous to think they don't have any vehicles. I've seen similar disputes about whether or not White Scars have terminators! All the Legions had huge supplies of equipment and were able to fight all sorts of different engagements, they just had their own tactical preferences.

I think it's likely that most of the Legion massed for the jump to Terra and fell prey to Nurgle. Legion of One mentions that Nurgle still wants to claim Garro. I therefore think that all post-heresy DG are likely to be plague marines.

Having said that, there are different ways to represent decay besides 'rotten and pustulent'. Rusting or emaciated are interesting alternatives. I've always fancied doing a decayed tech plague marine army, with all the vehicles and wargear rusting but kept working by sorcery.

Yeah fair play Ilmarinen, i automatically think of 4ed Red Thirst and hence see it as a disadvantage.

Yes it is highly likely that all post-heresy DG are plague marines, but there are plague marines from other chapters.

The rusted and emaciated look would be wicked. The problem i think is the easiest way to represent 'powered by sorcery' is 'daemonically possessed' and then all sorts of bloated, pustulent vehicles appear as the daemon manifests itself physically on the machine.

Space Wolves will give you the closest representation for wargear (bolter, bp, chainsword, double specials, few/no heavies, d00ds and d00ds in Rhinos). The plethora of special rules and wargear options will let you make a Wolf Lord that mirrors Typhus (Saga of the Bear, Terminator Armor, Frostblade would be my pick). That's pretty much where the similarity ends, though, as Ld8 and a complete lack of fluffy elements in just about every other slot sort of kill off the PH DG feel.

Playstyle, Blood Angels will probably get you closer. The Sang Priest's FNP bubble will actually allow you to 'relentlessly advance' in the face of enemy small arms fire but being forced to choose between Tac and Assault Marines doesn't fit the DG wargear and there's really no good option for kitting out a Typhus-esque commander.

If I were going to do it, I'd use Wolves as having a bolter and sword/pistol would be more important, and in terms of bending the fluff I'm more willing to take a Wolf Lord (or Logan) and a small Terminator retinue in a pod/LR with LFs as a firebase.

I play Pre Heresy Death guard and use codex Chaos Marines. It works well since you can play like Autocannons and twin-bolters.

Of course, it depends who you're playing against. I'm lucky to have a gaming group that consists of pre-heresy enthusiasts, so we're always happy to modify the rules to make things more fluffy (like allowing autocannons as a free replacement for missile launchers and replacing storm bolters with twin-linked bolters etc). If you're playing against friends you could always allow a house rule that tacticals can take an extra CCW (who knows, they might even become useful!). BoLS and Tempus Fugitives have both made pre-heresy rules packs that add interesting units (like Primarchs and Legion-specific squads).

Things only get complicated if you're playing in tournaments and have to stick rigidly to a set codex.

I'll mention again that some of the fluff is a bit contradictory - Collected Visions shows DG assault squads, and tactical squads with just bolters (no chainswords), so that bit in Index Astartes I'd say has been overridden. Particularly when it comes to the pre-heresy Legions, which had marines doing roles that in 40K have been passed to the Imperial Guard (such as artillery companies etc), you've got more scope to do an unusually themed army. Not all White Scars have to be on bikes, not all Night Lords have to have jump packs, etc etc.

I forgot to mention - in addition to c/a sanguinary priests (for FNP bubbles) I'm also taking Captain Tycho for his Ld10 bonus, which makes the army even more likely to stick around.