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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/06 14:12:03
Subject: 3K Skaven List, Comments and Criticism please
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Dakka Veteran
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With Ard Boyz rapidly approaching I'm going to need my rats in top shape to stand any chance. That said here is a list I've compiled based on what I actually have, which I hope will do well.
EDIT: The list has moved, lower, due to changes.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/07 13:04:49
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/06 15:48:29
Subject: 3K Skaven List, Comments and Criticism please
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Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot
Provo, UT
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You aren't taking a bell or furnace? I like the 2 HPA and the 3 WLC.
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"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever." -1984, pg.267
I think George Orwell was unknowingly describing 40K.
Armies - Highelves, Dwarves |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/06 16:22:38
Subject: 3K Skaven List, Comments and Criticism please
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Dakka Veteran
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Nah with the Furnace I couldn't get the 3rd cannon, slaves, or stormvermin. That to me was a problem. The Bell is likewise just I didn't have the points for it. Plus the blast thing never seems to work with me. Stupid opponets not taking warmachines.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/06 16:30:57
Subject: Re:3K Skaven List, Comments and Criticism please
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Stoic Grail Knight
Houston, Texas
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I would gladly take a furnace in a big block of plague monks over the stormvermin....
Stormvermin are fairly overpriced for what they do.
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Daemons-
Bretonnia-
Orcs n' Goblins- |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/06 16:45:52
Subject: 3K Skaven List, Comments and Criticism please
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Fresh-Faced New User
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It's clear you have no fear for the lightning storm in the third scenario
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/06 16:46:24
Subject: 3K Skaven List, Comments and Criticism please
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Dakka Veteran
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I can trade the Stormvermin for a Furnace and 13 of Monks with the Banner, but that seems really bad to me since the unit can't take hits.
EDIT: As for lightning storm, no I am not scared of it. It could be bad, but at the same time it can devastate my opponent as well, and that is if it even happens.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/06 16:59:28
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/06 17:23:14
Subject: 3K Skaven List, Comments and Criticism please
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Fresh-Faced New User
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arinnoor wrote:I can trade the Stormvermin for a Furnace and 13 of Monks with the Banner, but that seems really bad to me since the unit can't take hits.
EDIT: As for lightning storm, no I am not scared of it. It could be bad, but at the same time it can devastate my opponent as well, and that is if it even happens.
Spoken like a true child of the horned rat. You make happy happen!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/06 18:12:06
Subject: 3K Skaven List, Comments and Criticism please
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Dakka Veteran
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I played SAD back in the day. Learned well I did high risks. Also that battles with Skaven will always involve large explosions.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/06 18:44:11
Subject: 3K Skaven List, Comments and Criticism please
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Explosions are eazily the best part of a skaven army, thats why i am a fan of the fire thrower lol
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/06 22:31:17
Subject: 3K Skaven List, Comments and Criticism please
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Evasive Eshin Assassin
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First thing: get those individual prices off there, quick-quick!
So, the list:
- Why a Warlord? Just curious, really. He offers a good punch, but at a pretty high cost.
- Seconded on the Stormvermin. They were okay when you could get them a 3+ CC save. That's about it.
- Weapon teams: I'd swap one or two out for a Warpfire Thrower. About the same awesomeness in my opinion: if the 'Thrower is a bit less reliable, it makes up for that by being far more devastating when it does work. Plus, d3 Flaming wounds is a nice thing to have, in case of regenerating/flammable monsters.
- I'd drop the Chieftain's shield for a Halberd, honestly; I think S5/5+ save will get him out of more situations alive than S4/4+.
- why two lvl1's? Warp Lightning spam? I think a lvl2 should do about the same, if not a little better, and be less points.
- Lastly, I'd suggest some champions to chump-challenge with, in pretty much everything except the Gutter Runners. Slave Pawleaders aren't a must, but the others seem to be.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/07 03:51:02
Subject: Re:3K Skaven List, Comments and Criticism please
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Hi,
Yes I'm not a big fan of stormvermin as they have to use their halberds over their shields but you need something to take that stormbanner but I can see their advantages - Ws4, I5 is pretty good with S4.
If you want to keep them then I would reccomend frenzying them with the seer ASAP. If you do that then they are probably better than plauge monks.
I'm not sure the warlord is needed either. You could drop him for a flail wielding plauge priest to go with the stormvermin will probably have about the same amount of punch
I concur champions are absolutely nessecary in the stormvermin and clanrats.
I concur on the second warlock engineer not being needed. I'd just up the other to Lv2 and save the points.
I like the three units of gutter runners especially with the new warmachine rules. 30 poisoned sling shots is just nasty (there's two dead warmachines)
I too like your rare setup.
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Check out my website www.theonlinevault.net. It is currently for sale on Ebay so feel free to check it out
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320547187009 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/07 12:41:09
Subject: 3K Skaven List, Comments and Criticism please
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Dakka Veteran
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The Warlord is my general, as the Grey Seer has good chances to die in battle. Plus he gives added punch to a clanrat block.
The second engineer, IE the one with the orb, is for Kairos and Steamtanks. Both are used in my area and Cracks Call just doesn't cut it. Plus it adds a channeling atempt if nothing else.
That said champions do seem needed, for the clanrats units the characters will be in. I can add in the WFT, still working with it and forgot to add it in.
Have you read the dakka posting rules yet? If not, click to open them in a new window.
BTW, I'm a little confused on what save my Warlord gets. I have multiple people telling me different things, and no rulebook on hand to check. Is it Heavy Armor (5+), Shield (+1), Warlitter (+1), Mounted (+1), Dragonhelm (+1) for a 1+, or does he not get mounted?
Lords: 533
-Warlord, Shield, War-litter, Warlock Augmented Blade, Dragonhelm, Talisman of Preservation= 228
-Grey Seer, Power Scroll, Talisman of Endurance=305
Heroes: 452
-Cheiftan, Shield, Armor of Destiny, BSB=122
-Warlock Engineer, Lvl 1, Warp-energy Condenser, Doomrocket=115
-Warlock Engineer, Lvl 1, Brass Orb=115
-Warlock Engineer, Lvl 1, Dispell Scroll, Ironcurse Icon, Rathound Bodyguard=100
Core: 1004
-40*Clanrats, Shields, Full Command, Warpfire Thrower=270
-40*Clanrats, Shields, Full Command, Poisoned Wind Mortar=265
-40*Clanrats, Shields, Full Command, Poisoned Wind Mortar=265
-50*Slaves, Musician=102
-50*Slaves, Musician=102
Special: 270
-5*Gutter Runners, Poisoned Attacks, Slings=90
-5*Gutter Runners, Poisoned Attacks, Slings=90
-5*Gutter Runners, Poisoned Attacks, Slings=90
Rare: 740
Hell Pit Abomination=235
Hell Pit Abomination=235
Warp Lightning Cannon=90
Warp Lightning Cannon=90
Warp Lightning Cannon=90
Total=3000
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/04/08 03:00:23
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/07 13:04:47
Subject: 3K Skaven List, Comments and Criticism please
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Fresh-Faced New User
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I support the not running a seer as the general, terrible horrible things tend to happen to their warp addled minds.
I also run 2 lvl 1 engineers and its mainly because of my reoccurring luck with them melting their brains. By spreading the levels out the damage is minimized when the melt down occurs.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/07 13:07:33
Subject: 3K Skaven List, Comments and Criticism please
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Dakka Veteran
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I had the points for Lvl 2s now, and the added spells will help the grey seer better asure the spells he wants. With power scroll and D3+2 tokens I do not want him leading the army. It will be a miracle if he survives a battle.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/07 17:01:44
Subject: 3K Skaven List, Comments and Criticism please
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Evasive Eshin Assassin
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That may be true, but in all honesty, if someone wants your Warlord dead-dead, he'll get that way with relative ease. 1+/4+ is about as good as anyone can expect, but a low (for a Lord) WS and only average T and W...
Aside from that, though, if spending an extra 200pts to deny 100pts works for you, I can see the merit.
Here's the question I'm actually asking: why two Warlocks with a lvl each instead of two Warlocks, one being lvl2? It's 15pts cheaper and you get an extra +1 to cast/dispel. Getting two instances of Warp Lightning seems like the only benefit.
While you can say that your minimizing how badly Miscasts hurt, I'd say that two wizards is about as much damage control as you need. I wouldn't expect to lose more than one or two casters by the end of the game. And with Skaven wizards, it's all about seeing how much you can deal out before you die, rather than point denial.
Besides, having one Warlock who's not a wizard means you can Skitterleap him into position with zero concern.
Finally, I'd rather have no Stormbanner than no Ward on my BSB. He's prime target #1 in this list, really. And with three weapon teams, three units of missile troops, and three war machines, how likely is it that you're going to hurt your opponent more than you're hurting yourself? I'd rather have a re-rollable Ld test than negate most shooting for a few turns (since the first round of combat with that Chieftain will likely see him die).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/07 18:17:01
Subject: Re:3K Skaven List, Comments and Criticism please
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Stoic Grail Knight
Houston, Texas
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Yeah I would make your bsb and generally as tanky as possibly. Against skaven priority number one is the general, and number two is the BSB, once they are dead its honestly not hard to break them.
However with the general and bsb its really hard to break skaven.
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Daemons-
Bretonnia-
Orcs n' Goblins- |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/07 19:07:53
Subject: 3K Skaven List, Comments and Criticism please
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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In terms of importance I put the BSB over the general, honestly. Clan Rats are Ld. 5 base, the Warlord is 7. Those two points of Ld are less important to me than a reroll is.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/07 19:17:44
Subject: Re:3K Skaven List, Comments and Criticism please
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Stoic Grail Knight
Houston, Texas
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However, slaves are ld 2, which are normally the huge 50ish strong blocks people try to tarpit you with, So at best they are ld5.
It really depends on their army composition.
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Daemons-
Bretonnia-
Orcs n' Goblins- |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/07 21:05:14
Subject: 3K Skaven List, Comments and Criticism please
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Evasive Eshin Assassin
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One of the reasons that I field two blocks of 50 each.
That, and the number of things that can turn Slaves into pudding is significantly greater than the things that can turn Clanrats into such.
I usually try to make my BSB as hard as I can, since he's an easier target. Of course, two (really) bad rolls will see him insta-killed anyway...
And the general is worth more points.
Still, I favor the BSB, and I think this list would benefit from him living more than the general (with three Clanrat blocks, two A-bombs, and, less important, three Gutter Runner blocks).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/08 03:05:20
Subject: 3K Skaven List, Comments and Criticism please
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Dakka Veteran
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3 lvl 1s now for three channels, a scroll, and taking three spells of ruin before the seer rolls and tries for crack's call. Automatically Appended Next Post: Three lvl 1s now for three channels, a scroll, and taking three spells of ruin before the seer rolls and tries for crack's call.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/08 03:05:26
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/08 17:43:02
Subject: 3K Skaven List, Comments and Criticism please
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Evasive Eshin Assassin
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Okay, so no answer in the "two lvl1's versus one lvl2" department. I can dig it. The scroll is a nice addition, though.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/08 18:06:42
Subject: 3K Skaven List, Comments and Criticism please
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Dakka Veteran
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What do you mean? I thought my latest post does answer that. The three lvl 1s will roll to grab spells so the Seer won't roll bad ones, and they provide more channeling atempts.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/09 02:21:15
Subject: 3K Skaven List, Comments and Criticism please
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Evasive Eshin Assassin
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Three lvl1s provide 1 extra channeling attempt than a lvl1 and a lvl2. They provide the same spells (but the 2 and 1 have a higher chance of providing more spells, since you can only get Warp Lightning twice, rather than three times.
Also, I think there's something (rather small) to be said about having a +2 to cast/dispel versus +1. At least, something more to be said than "what if I first three wizards break their concentration?", so I consider that another point.
So you pay 15pts for a channeling attempt. And either (1) you might not put the Orb or the Rocket into the best position, or (2) you do and risk jeopardizing your 65pt wizard.
I'm just really struggling to see it. Thought I was missing something here; didn't want to be the last one on board.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/09 21:51:10
Subject: 3K Skaven List, Comments and Criticism please
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Dakka Veteran
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All these wizards will almost never be casting as the Seer will be eating most, if not all, of my dice. Also the third wizard allows me a dispell scroll, which I've come to like having.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/09 22:24:46
Subject: 3K Skaven List, Comments and Criticism please
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Evasive Eshin Assassin
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Okay, a Seer uses all of your dice so...you get more wizards? If that's the case, just get one lvl1 or 2 warlock with the Scroll, and the Rocket and the Orb on two non-wizard Engineers.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/10 00:21:26
Subject: 3K Skaven List, Comments and Criticism please
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Dakka Veteran
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Then I risk the Seer getting bad spells from Ruin. I only want him to have either skitterleap or crack's call, none of the others. The three wizards help to ensure that by grabing any of the other four that they can.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/10 15:07:47
Subject: 3K Skaven List, Comments and Criticism please
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Evasive Eshin Assassin
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...wha? Okay, so you want to control what spells the Seer gets. But...number of wizards does not matter.
Spells known = sum of all wizard levels. 2+1=1+1+1.
Except any number of Engineers can know Warp Lightning, so rolling that doesn't stop (a) other Engineers from getting it or, I believe, (b) your Seer from getting it. So really, the less instances of Warp Lightning you could possibly roll, the better. There's also the (high) risk that one of your three spells is Skitterleap or Crack's Call, but that's unavoidable.
So, once again, I ask, why not this:
1 Warlock Engineer, lvl2, Rat-hound Bodyguard, Ironcurse Icon, Dispel Scroll, (135)
1 Warlock Engineer, lvl1, Doomrocket, Warp Energy Condenser (115)
1 Warlock Engineer, Brass Orb (65)
Same toys. Same spells (but less chances at Warp Lightning). One less chance to channel, but for 15pts, you could get +1 to channel (more likely to get one die versus--potentially--getting two).
So I suppose the only thing I can see in favor of three wizards is that they can all trade their spell for Warp Lightning, in case they all roll up the spells you want for your Seer. But since you only want 1-2 spells for him anyway, that doesn't matter.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/04/10 15:16:54
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