Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've saw on dakka dakka that the nobz 'eavy armor is not popular.

I was wondering why?

I personally always use the 'eavy armor on the nobz in my boyz squad. That way when I get shot at, I can take at least a 4+ save on the nobz until he fails and gets one wound. I think that 5 points is well invested to keep at least 4 more attacks on my charge. Yesterday I saved 3 boyz that way. That is 18 points and 12 attacks on the charge.

Now second part of the question.

Why not take 'eavy armor on a nobz mob? Cybork bodies are good but are only 5+ which means that 2 out of 3 times, you will fail you saving rolls. Since my army is mostly foot slogging, these saves are pretty important.

Overall, here is the question: is 'eavy armor worth it?

Personally I think that sounds like a good idea to put it on one, and I think you worked the math out for it as well. I play guard and put 4+ carapace armor on virtually everything though, so I might be biased.

However, just realize that the current meta is mass high STR ap4 and lower (autocannons, psycannons, missile launchers) weapons, so if you have a whole footslogger squad worth of 4+ saves, it'll just get hit with all that because you're mostly footslogging and they won't have trukks to pop.

I don't play Orks, but my brother seems to love Mega Armor and pretty much ignore 'eavy armor.

The goal of Nobs is to get in and tear things up in melee. The biggest threat to your nobs in melee are weapons such as power fists that will ID and would ignore an armor save. Cybork is a 5+ against all of those. Other, weaker attacks can also be saved by cybork. Yes, Eavy armor is better against mass attacked, but not hugely better (after all, it's only a 4+ vs a 5++).

You can always use Eavy Armor in place of a Kombi Rokkit or Kombi Skorcha for wound allocation, letting you take normal attacks against a better save.

Your nobs shouldn't be getting shot at. Keep them stuck in as much as possible. Nobs, like anything else, go down to massed fire, and are more susceptible to it than other deathstars such as TH/SS Termies.

Your Friend Doctor Robert wrote:I don't play Orks, but my brother seems to love Mega Armor and pretty much ignore 'eavy armor.

The problem of Mega armor nobz is their cost. They cost 40 points for 2+ save, no invul and a slow and purposeful rule. PKs, so they strike last, but one hit pretty much any infantry. I like to compare the Mega armor nobz to the terminators of the SM. For 40 points, they get 2+ save, 5+ invul, powerfist and storm bolter, Lighnign claws or TH/SS.

Much better than the ork alternative. They can be fun to play thought, but they need a transport, and sicne they take 2 slots, in a trukk, there is a maximum of 6, or 10 in a bw. If they get in melee, they will bring havoc if there isnt a lot of hits comign their way, but a powerfist, or thunder hammer will see them go BOOM.

I use 'eavy Armor on my Nobz squads for the purposes of wound allocation. For example, this is my loadout

1. Painboy
2. Power Klaw
3. Power Klaw/'eavy armor
4. Klaw/'eavy armor/Waaagh! Banner
5. Big Choppa
6. Big Choppa/'eavy armor
7. Big Choppa/Bosspole
8. Big Choppa/Bosspole/'eavy amor
9. 'eavy armor
10. Slugga and Choppa

As you can see, it helps provide wound allocation, and actually does serve to give me slightly more survivability against non-PW attacks than I normally would have. Having 5 models with 'eavy armor gives me places to put the non-AP4 or PW wounds with a higher chance to save.

I know some people like using combi-weapons to provide wound allocation, but I find that I rarely, if ever, fired mine when I ran them that way. The rokkits miss easily, and killing too many with a Skorcha is a great way of leaving you stuck outside of assault range. Additionally, if I'm shooting, I'm not using Ghazghkull's 6" Waaagh! move, which is what my Nobz are pretty much always doing on the turn they get out of their battlewagon.

So bottom line, 'eavy armor is good on Nobz squads because it provides you with wound allocation goodness, and also gives you slightly increased survivability against non-AP4/power weapon wounds. It is superior to the combi-weapon options because I find that I rarely use them, and it could potentially be detrimental to kill too many models through shooting.

Now, as for 'eavy Armor on the Nob in boyz squads, this is a bit more tricky. For me, it's always one of those luxury upgrades. If I have points to fill after the meat of the list is set, then 'eavy armor will get added to the Nobz. I like that it can save a boy during Kaboom! results, and the Nob can also soak up a wound during CC, keeping 4 extra attacks, and possibly helping me out in combat resolution.

For instance, charge a squad of Space Marines, they put 5 wounds on your 11 Boys + Nob. You put 4 on the boyz, and 1 on the Nob. Then, you lose, say, 3 Boyz, and the Nob takes a wound. You're down 4 in combat res, but then you have an extra 4 attacks coming back. Alternatively, you may lose all 4 boyz, but your Nob saves his wound. You may have lost 4 boyz, but you have a more manageable combat res number to go against.

Bottom line for me is this: he can save a boy dying, and if the first round of CC doesn't break them, you absolutely need more bodies to allow your Klaw to clean up in future rounds, because your boyz will be much less useful.

Serder wrote:

Your Friend Doctor Robert wrote:I don't play Orks, but my brother seems to love Mega Armor and pretty much ignore 'eavy armor.

The problem of Mega armor nobz is their cost. They cost 40 points for 2+ save, no invul and a slow and purposeful rule. PKs, so they strike last, but one hit pretty much any infantry. I like to compare the Mega armor nobz to the terminators of the SM. For 40 points, they get 2+ save, 5+ invul, powerfist and storm bolter, Lighnign claws or TH/SS.

Much better than the ork alternative. They can be fun to play thought, but they need a transport, and sicne they take 2 slots, in a trukk, there is a maximum of 6, or 10 in a bw. If they get in melee, they will bring havoc if there isnt a lot of hits comign their way, but a powerfist, or thunder hammer will see them go BOOM.

To be fair... You get two wounds and a twin linked shoota. Granted its not fantastic... but its important. You also get three attacks normally so four on the charge where Terminators don't. Only lightning claws can get that. Granted... You'll probably lose guys in CC with them against CC savvy units just because they can't get an invuln save. (which is stupid). I don't think its fair comparing them to terminators though, because they're separately good at different situations. If you do compare them, compare them against normal termi's... in that case.
Trading BS 4 for BS 2, Less options, and no invuln. But you get 2 wounds, 3 attacks and a twinlinked shoota. Don't forget they get furious charge and waagh. better tank hunting (didn't include Chainfist because that would change price difference. 5 meganobz vs 5 terminators. )

EDIT: I realized I didn't add anything to the discussion. On a regular basis my brother uses 'eavy armor. He loves it and it saves him quite a few guys in general.. now.. I usually have the advantage since I play a shooty list... but you can't base whether something is good based on how effective they are against one single army. You need to plan around (granted some areas have more of one type of player than others... like my area has more Marines/ IG/ Orks/ and Necrons.. very few Tau and Eldar. almost No nids x__x ) but you see my point? Armies that are not close combat oriented are still able to hurt people in assault...however unlikely. Plus I have a lot of assaulty squads as marines that attack a lot but don't have power weapons... So having a better save is good.

I dont usually use eavy armor and heres why:

(now unlike you I dont use footsloggin as my primary means of transportation)

All it gives you is a 4up save...for 5 pts...those points could be used to add a big shoota into your boyz mob to give them some actual firepower (if you are fielding shootas, which if you are footsloggin i think you should be)...as far as taking a wound do to shooting, i only usually need my nob to take a shot once per game...remember he has 2 wounds and cant be singled out in CC so that extra wound can be used to eat a bullet if need be...if you plan on using that armor in CC well then youre probably already in a hard spot as my nob usually takes CC wounds last.

As for putting it in a unit of nobz?
Your painboy (you mentioned a cybork save so i assume you are taking one) already provides you with eavy armor of sorts. You get a 4up FNP save, which is actually better as you still get this save from AP 4/3 weaponry. The painboy acts as your eavy armor. You would be paying more points into a unit that is costing alot already as it is and unless you plan on using it for diversification reasons (as shealyr does...though Ill disagree with him on the usefulness of combi weapons) then I wouldnt bother.

5pts can buy you an awful lot of stuff in the ork codex...Squad and wagon big shootas, extra armor for your wagons, a reinforced ram for your vehicles (on trukks mainly as a wagon should have a rolla), riggers on your wagons...all kinds of things that are far more useful than a 4+ save on one guy who already has 2 wounds as it is...

Thats my take on it anyway...hope you found it useful!

Serder wrote:I personally always use the 'eavy armor on the nobz in my boyz squad. That way when I get shot at, I can take at least a 4+ save on the nobz until he fails and gets one wound. I think that 5 points is well invested to keep at least 4 more attacks on my charge. Yesterday I saved 3 boyz that way. That is 18 points and 12 attacks on the charge.

Yeah, I totally agree and do exactly this myself. A lot of people look at me a bit strangely when I take an unforced save on the nob but it makes perfect sense when you think about it (although perhaps, if someone doesn't know orks, they assume a nob has only 1 wound like a marine sarg).

I think a squad of nobz is a different case though, when they have 5+ cybork you're not as worried about what you throw them at in assualt. For example you can take on a trygon without much fuss or hopefully make a save from a marine powerfist to avoid ID (only 5+, but its better than nothing). It depends what you play against though, if you play against players who tend to hit you with masses of high AP wounds (foot IG, orks or tyranids?) then I can see why you would like 'eavy armour better.

As for Mega Nobz, that extra wound is pretty awesome, but only really if you take 3 and use wound allocation shenanigans. 12 str9 power attacks on the charge and 3 wounds before they feel anything? That ain't bad (as long as you're not unlucky and take 2 wounds on the same guy when using wound allocation). Assualt termies are better overall though, thats why they don't take as much care and skill to use!

I ignore evy armor on my nobs completely. If they are nobs in a boyz mob, they are basically a 20+ wound nob, and by the time the wounds actually get down to him, that mob is done.
In a optimized nob mob, I still ignore the upgrade. They are plenty of options to make wound allocation easy enough without it. They still get a 5++/4+FNP, that is rock hard to begin with. I leave the evy off because its far to easy to go around a 4+. Specially in the shooting phase.

You make a good point KingCracker,

Anything that ignores the 4+ will kill the FNP typically, in which case you're relying on the 5++ anyways.

At 5 pts a model you get get 6 nobz instead of 5. I'd take the extra nob!

I wish I had considered this before I packed up my 1750 list today...

Next time Gadget... NEXT TIME!!!!!

In my orks I use a decked out nob squad and they all have eavy armor.

Nothing wrong with a 4+ armour save. Against small arms fire (and yes you'll probably incur a lot of that regardless of opponent) you will start dropping wounds really fast because you're relying on 1/3 of the dice not 1/2.

At the moment I have cyborks to counter the hard-hitting weapons that would normally counter the 4+ armour save. However I do plan for a Nob squad with all the Bells and Whistles (which are made of Flutes and Oboes )

Well, whenever I look at 'eavy armour, I think to myself, "What's better? a 4+ save some of the time, or a 5+ save ALL of the time?"

I'll opt for option 2.

loota boy wrote:Well, whenever I look at 'eavy armour, I think to myself, "What's better? a 4+ save some of the time, or a 5+ save ALL of the time?"

I'll opt for option 2.

Not to mention your 4+ FNP save pretty much all the time! (if it negates your FNP...it probably punched passed that 4+ armor too!)

Shake Zoola wrote:

loota boy wrote:Well, whenever I look at 'eavy armour, I think to myself, "What's better? a 4+ save some of the time, or a 5+ save ALL of the time?"

I'll opt for option 2.

Not to mention your 4+ FNP save pretty much all the time! (if it negates your FNP...it probably punched passed that 4+ armor too!)

True dat!

What most people point out in this thread is solid. 5++/4+ is really solid on multi wound models with allocation nin-jutsu. Things that bypass heavy armor bypass FNP as well which makes your nobs defensless.
One thing I would like to add is that it is possible to mix in 1 or 2 models with heavy armor and allocate saveable(spelling?) wounds to them first in order to give them a greater chance of saving however I tend to avoid it as I try to keep my nobz as cheap as possible while delivering a solid punch

sn0zcumb3r wrote:What most people point out in this thread is solid. 5++/4+ is really solid on multi wound models with allocation nin-jutsu. Things that bypass heavy armor bypass FNP as well which makes your nobs defensless.
One thing I would like to add is that it is possible to mix in 1 or 2 models with heavy armor and allocate saveable(spelling?) wounds to them first in order to give them a greater chance of saving however I tend to avoid it as I try to keep my nobz as cheap as possible while delivering a solid punch

AP4/AP3 does not bypass FNP. just Sayin.

Most of the time though just paying 5 points/model for 5++/4+FNP is a lot cheaper than paying 10 points/model for 4+/5++/4+FNP.