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Hi guys!

The following is a short list of units that I own already, or am positive that I'll grab further down the track. Though very rough at this stage, I want to see what you all think. Just a few things of note at the point:

- My IG army will be infantry-heavy, with a number of vehicles to supplement ground troops and others to fulfil specialised roles, or deal with threats that the infantry can't (Valks/Vendettas, Hydras, Ordnance Weapons, etc).
- I've favoured blast weapons for one simple reason... reliability. I fight plenty of horde armies, and being able to lay down a blast template every turn irrespective of BS is a massive advantage.
- I realise that most players hate Mortars, but I think they'll work well here. Barrage rules (against hordes), can fire without LoS, and should be spectacular in tandem with a Psyker Battle Squad.
- Company/Platoon Command Squads will function as highly mobile fire support units. See the bottom of this post.


Anyway, I'd really appreciate some feedback, as well as some suggestions and ideas. What would work well with what I have here? What should go? Any useful hints or tips?


TOTAL COST: 2050pts so far.

HQ


TROOPS


ELITES


FAST ATTACK


HEAVY SUPPORT





Oh yeah, the Infantry platoons are designed to be offensive (objective taking /holding) and defensive (maximum firepower) respectively.



The first is extremely cheap and well-populated (57 men, plus the Chimera), intended to advance and secure/contest an objective.

- The four infantry squads are cheap but relatively effective, able to kill enemies with massed Lasgun and Grenade Launcher fire, and slow enemy melee units. They also screen the PCS Chimera.
- The Chimera (with PCS inside, as well as an attached Lord Commissar) advances with them, supporting with Multilaser/Heavy Flamer, Heavy Stubber and four Grenade Launchers, all the while providing surrounding troops with orders and an hull-extended "Aura of Discipline" bubble, ensuring that they don't break along the way and stay put when controlling an objective.
- The two Special Weapon Squads are able to counter assaulting units with Str.8, AP2 Demo Charges and dual Flamers, either catching them before they charge or waiting for them to become stranded in the open. They can also clear enemies out of cover, in tandem with the Chimera's Heavy Flamer.


NOTES:
- I might "attach" a Hellhound/Banewolf/Colossus to support them by uprooting enemies in cover.
- The CCS could also be better used to maybe support the platoon with a second chimera, BS4 Meltaguns and Senior Officer orders. Alternatively, I could use mounted Melta-Vets.
- The Vendettas could be used as well, hitting enemy heavies in the way hard, and maybe airlifting veterans to the objective at the same time.


This would never be my only platoon. A second "firebase" platoon would need to complement this offensive one, to both draw fire and eliminate enemy transports. This firebase platoon would be supported by Russes, Chimeras, arty, etc, with up to four Mortar squads working in tandem with the Psyker battle Squad.




So what do you think?...




Thanks in advance for any replies!

IMO its a decent start. It does need revision though.

HQ wise, drop the plasma pistol and bolter. Reg. standard is also not worth it I would think. Run 4 special weapons and your set
Lord Commissar is meh IMO

Troops
Gunline guard armies never do well. If your going to run platoons, the most effective strategy is blobbing, which implies having at least 2 infantry squads with pw sergeants and special weapons. These squads are also accompanied by a commissar to make the unit hard to shift

Fast Attack
Drop the HB sponsons. Vendettas target tanks, meaning the sponsons are relatively useless

Heavy Support
A stationary tank is a dead tank. Drop the sponsons so you can move and fire the turret and add in another russ

orkboy232 wrote:HQ wise, drop the plasma pistol and bolter. Reg. standard is also not worth it I would think. Run 4 special weapons and your set
Lord Commissar is meh IMO

Plasma Pistols are there to increase firepower against MCs and MEQs at 12". Bolters are only 2pts. I took a Regimental Standard to anchor troops and keep them on objectives, and the Commissar helps with orders as well. Together, they make my infantry nigh-unbreakable, and if one dies, the other is there to keep things running.

Not to sound rude, but could you maybe explain this one a bit more?

orkboy232 wrote:Troops
Gunline guard armies never do well. If your going to run platoons, the most effective strategy is blobbing, which implies having at least 2 infantry squads with pw sergeants and special weapons. These squads are also accompanied by a commissar to make the unit hard to shift

Why go the close combat route though? For the same cost as a PW, I could take an Autocannon or Heavy Bolter, and Guardsmen suck in melee (no cover saves, low Initiative, lLeadership and WS). Commissars aren't too flash either. Any enemies that CC Guard squads could hope to deal with will be sitting back and shooting anyway... against units like Hormagaunts, Assault Marines, Orks, etc, the "blob" will be useless in melee. I could only ever see a non-shooty Infantry Squad being useful (to the point of being worth their points) against expensive models with relatively few attacks (to tie them up), when used to Outflank the enemy with Al'rahem, or when airlifted into ranks of shooty enemies (such as Fire Warriors or Devastator Combat Squads). Only then could they ever make back their points value.

I would even go so far as to suggest that Infantry Squads with NO upgrades are more valuable than those with PW Sergeants, as they are nearly 17% cheaper, and can be used to hold uncontested objectives, draw fire, or tie up models with the same degree of effectiveness.



Anyway, thanks for the reply. Will definitely rethink the sponsons.

Hi Spoon. As always when I critique someone's army I try not to completely overhaul it so hopefully this doesn't come across like that.

To start, I suggest dropping the missile launchers. They look good on paper what with their "flexibility" but in my experience they are just really expensive mortars. When you end up wanting to use the krak missile it's usually because you're facing something your autocannons can't handle (ie Armor 13-14), in which case you miss half the time and when you do hit you're lucky if you get even a glance. I suggest replacing them all with mortars to reduce points while still keeping with your blast template theme.

Secondly, I think you need more anti-tank in a 1750pt army. You have the vendetta. If your enemy values their armor all they have to do is dispatch the vendetta and stay clear of / destroy / screen the CCS and they're golden. Similar to missile launcher, the LRBT looks anti-tank on paper but is not in game (you're likely to graze armor, thus cutting it to a S4 hit, and even with a direct hit you need a 6 to glance AV14. Unlike the ML I think the Russ is valuable for your list but not in an anti-armor role).

If you drop one or two of the extra goodies (such as the Lord Commissar) in addition to switching out the MLs for Mortars, you could buy a second vendetta right there.

Finally, I think your PCS is a little weak in its intended role of storming objectives. Here is another place you could save points: drop the special weapon squads and equip the PCSs with flamers instead of 'nade launchers. If their chimera survives to the objective, you have 4 flame templates plus a heavy flamer. Since most objectives are in cover this gives you a way better chance at clearing it out than 4 launchers would. Plus against hordes flamers are just devastating in general.

So, here is how I'd tweak your list:

1x CCS (145pts):
4x Meltagun
Chimera w/ hull flamer

1x PCS (105pts):
4x flamer
Chimera w/ hull flamer
3x INF SQUAD (180pts):
Grenade launcher + Mortar
2x HW SQUAD(135pts):
One with 3x Mortar, one with 3x Autocannon

Repeat above platoon (420pts)

1x PBS (115pts):
Chimera

2x VENDETTA (260pts)
no upgrades

2x LRBT (300pts)
no upgrades


If my math was correct (unlikely ) this comes to 1660pts. I dropped most of the upgrades in favor of adding a couple more units. I put another meltagun on the CCS and also added another Russ for anti-horde and another Vendetta for anti-tank (alternatively, if your opponent isn't fielding much armor, in my experience vendettas work well for laying waste to small elite units or complementing the autocannon for MC hunting). From here you could go ahead and throw some of those upgrades back on, though I would be inclined to take a Griffon, a couple flamer sentinels, third mortar HW squad, or something else more useful for horde-crushing than a few extra bolters/stubbers here and there.

Hope this helps!

The reason I would suggest not using plasma pistols is due to the fact that, sure, it will increase your firepower against MEQs, but they're too expensive to actually be worth it. I also don't like bolters or bolt pistols as everything else in the book is based off of a multiple of 5 system. Those 2 or 4 or 6 or whatever points mess me up when building a list. The regimental standard has its uses but your HQ has to be too close to the front lines to really make it work. I don't like the Lord Commissar just because his radius is even smaller, and he usually winds up dying before being worth his points.

With the blobbed platoons, you still don't want to get into combat. They're a shooting unit. The reason the heavy weapons are useless is that you want to be advancing towards objectives, not sitting on your table edge shooting away at the enemy. If you advance, the heavy weapons are useless as they'll probably only get 1 turn of shooting. Another advantage to the blob is that you have a great chance to pull off FRFSRF. When you have 24 lasguns (or more blazing away like that, the number of hits you get can be staggering. The whole point behind the commissar and the PW sergeants is to act as the best objective holder in the game IMO. Big unit, stubborn, re-rolls to morale and can take down most opponents in CC. The issue of using smaller squads to do this is that they will break and flee on the first morale check you have to make, so you pretty much wasted that unit.

Thanks a lot for the help guys, some solid advice above.

Shas'o Nom Nom wrote:To start, I suggest dropping the missile launchers. They look good on paper what with their "flexibility" but in my experience they are just really expensive mortars. When you end up wanting to use the krak missile it's usually because you're facing something your autocannons can't handle (ie Armor 13-14), in which case you miss half the time and when you do hit you're lucky if you get even a glance. I suggest replacing them all with mortars to reduce points while still keeping with your blast template theme.

Now that I think about it, you're absolutely right.
Mortars can indirect-fire, hit vehicles on their side armour , and cause pinning, all for one-third of a Missile Launcher's cost. No Krak missile, but with the extra points, I'm sure I'll find something to fill that gap.

Now I just have to choose between Autocannons and Mortars for my shooty squads... I'd pick ACs (to pop transports), but then Hydras can fulfil the same role, and are much better at it to boot.

Shas'o Nom Nom wrote:Secondly, I think you need more anti-tank in a 1750pt army. You have the vendetta. If your enemy values their armor all they have to do is dispatch the vendetta and stay clear of / destroy / screen the CCS and they're golden. Similar to missile launcher, the LRBT looks anti-tank on paper but is not in game (you're likely to graze armor, thus cutting it to a S4 hit, and even with a direct hit you need a 6 to glance AV14. Unlike the ML I think the Russ is valuable for your list but not in an anti-armor role).

Yeah, I was planning to use the LRBT as an MEQ repellent, or to kill transports in an emergency.

As for anti-tank, the above units aren't a complete list, just a few units that I planned to base everything around. I was thinking of taking a couple of Medusas with Bastion Breachers for such a role, but my two most common opponents play Nids and Necrons (Making Medusas pretty ineffective). Maybe a Manticore, just in case I come across a mech army? I'm not too knowledgeable about how to properly counter tanks with IG yet.

At the moment, I'd be pretty happy with a pair of Vendettas to bring down Monstrous Creatures and Monoliths.

Shas'o Nom Nom wrote:Finally, I think your PCS is a little weak in its intended role of storming objectives. Here is another place you could save points: drop the special weapon squads and equip the PCSs with flamers instead of 'nade launchers. If their chimera survives to the objective, you have 4 flame templates plus a heavy flamer. Since most objectives are in cover this gives you a way better chance at clearing it out than 4 launchers would. Plus against hordes flamers are just devastating in general.

The PCS doesn't storm objectives by itself, it supports other troops that storm objectives, riding inside the Chimera and providing anti-infantry supporting fire along the way, then flushing enemies out of cover when they reach the objective.

The SWSs with Flamers and Demo Charges are primarily counter-assault and anti-horde/enemies-in-cover units. They also serve as suicide speed-bumps, rushing forward to throw the charges and toast enemy melee squads, then blocking them off from the rest of the platoon if necessary.
Have a look at the bottom of my post for an updated offensive platoon.

Shas'o Nom Nom wrote:So, here is how I'd tweak your list:

1x CCS (145pts):
4x Meltagun
Chimera w/ hull flamer

Done. Though I want to keep the Heavy Stubber, as it allows the Chimera to almost double its long-range anti-infantry firepower, and can be fired on the move.

Shas'o Nom Nom wrote:2x VENDETTA (260pts)
no upgrades

I'll be getting a pair of Vendettas soon.

Shas'o Nom Nom wrote:2x LRBT (300pts)
no upgrades

Should I go for two battle tank variants? And I wanted to include some indirect ordnance of some kind... I was thinking of either a Colossus or two (to dig MEQ enemies out), or some Griffons, like you said.

As for anti-horde duty, I'm not really sure about my options. What works well? Maybe a squadron of Hellhounds/Bane Wolves? I like fire.

orkboy232 wrote:The regimental standard has its uses but your HQ has to be too close to the front lines to really make it work. I don't like the Lord Commissar just because his radius is even smaller, and he usually winds up dying before being worth his points.

With the blobbed platoons, you still don't want to get into combat. They're a shooting unit. The reason the heavy weapons are useless is that you want to be advancing towards objectives, not sitting on your table edge shooting away at the enemy. If you advance, the heavy weapons are useless as they'll probably only get 1 turn of shooting. Another advantage to the blob is that you have a great chance to pull off FRFSRF. When you have 24 lasguns (or more blazing away like that, the number of hits you get can be staggering. The whole point behind the commissar and the PW sergeants is to act as the best objective holder in the game IMO. Big unit, stubborn, re-rolls to morale and can take down most opponents in CC. The issue of using smaller squads to do this is that they will break and flee on the first morale check you have to make, so you pretty much wasted that unit.

I've come up with the concept for a highly-mobile platoon that I want to implement when playing objective matches. See the OP.

IGs "inability" to fight in CC are actually one of their biggest strenghts.

You WANT your small sacrifical units to flee from combat in the first round. Just so your army can fire on them for another turn or 2.

If you like infantry there is a good setup to use.
It consists of a 2-30 man blob, a platoon command and a 10man infantry unit.

Eguip the blob unit with grenade launchers for mobile range. Plasma/melta guns can work too but are not "optimal" in this case. Powerweapons are useful in this unit if you like them.

Your Platoon Command should either have 4 flamers or 4 grenade launchers depending on what you like.

I= 10 man sacrifical meat wall unit
B= Blob unit with commissar
C= Platoon Command

I I I I I I I I
B B B C C C
B B B B B B
B B B B B B

Keep the untis 2-3" from each others to prevent multiple charges.

First unit of infantry is just a meatwall, there to give your other units 4+ cover. If the opponent wastes shots on them the better. They are not killing your important units then. If they charge your I unit they most likely break it in CC and be open for returnfire from your lasguns/flamers/grenade launchers. Your PC is there to give the units FRFSRF! a turn or 2 or perhaps giving the I unit the INCOMING! order to make them a little harder to kill. 5+ cover in the open is pretty descent.

All your weapons are AP4 or less so it doesnt matter if you fire though your own lines against most opponents.

Another not is that if you are about to get assulted it can be an idea to GTG with the I unit just to make them WORSE in CC. Being stuck in CC for another turn is NOT a good thing for you.

If the blob unit are equiped with powerweapons they can quite reliably mop up weakened SM units and stuff like that though grinding them down. And unless you have disgustingly unlucky rolls, most enemy units should be at half strength or less when they get to your lines. (Unless you play a GT and boring melta vets are the only viable build...)

On the topic of powerblobs: I had two 20 man units take out a SM command squad, Lysander, and put a wound on Vulcan.

More importantly, it tied them up the entire game.

With regards to your list, I think you've set your blobs up to be too static, and as such, you're only going to try to objective rush with your PCS, which will be your folly. I think you need at least two vendettas, otherwise it will get shot out of the sky before you have a chance to do anything with it. Finally, I think that your Leman Russ is paying 30 points more only to be able to kill fewer MEQ. If you're planning on firing all those guns, wound allocation could easily turn against you.

Oh, at this moment, if I were playing SM, I'd try to hit you in close combat. Even with a 5 man squad of Tac Marines. Probably even with scouts. No Commissar means you could well end up breaking from that combat. I wouldn't want to lose this nice expensive platoon without at least tar pitting the thing killing them for a few rounds.

Updated OP. Will comment tomorrow. It's almost 5am lol.

Maybe a Manticore, just in case I come across a mech army? I'm not too knowledgeable about how to properly counter tanks with IG yet.

Actually yeah, I'm not sure why I didn't recommend a manticore earlier. Its away good horde killer and not bad at popping light tanks. And sometimes heavy tanks, but I'd only use it for that if you have nothing else worth blowing up at the moment. And regarding the 4 shots per game... initially sounds like a drawback but once you let the first salvo fly the poor manticore isn't likely to live until turn 5 anyway

*Edit: Don't forget, the manticore's hits count as side armor shots against vehicles due to being barrage weapon

Now it's got some more teeth to it. I still think that if you're charging forward with that platoon, you'll want a commissar in it. Unless of course you're keeping them each separate 10 man squads or something.

Shas'o Nom Nom wrote:'m not sure why I didn't recommend a manticore earlier. Its away good horde killer and not bad at popping light tanks. And sometimes heavy tanks, but I'd only use it for that if you have nothing else worth blowing up at the moment. And regarding the 4 shots per game... initially sounds like a drawback but once you let the first salvo fly the poor manticore isn't likely to live until turn 5 anyway

*Edit: Don't forget, the manticore's hits count as side armor shots against vehicles due to being barrage weapon

Yeah, I was thinking about that; with it's huge range, Str. 10 and Ordnance barrage rules, the Manticore is probably the best counter to enemy artillery batteries in the Guard codex (short of deep-striking/flanking melta squads). But against Necrons and Nids, who I'll be playing the most... Str. 10, AP4 isn't very useful against anything but Monoliths or Warriors.

daedalus wrote:Now it's got some more teeth to it. I still think that if you're charging forward with that platoon, you'll want a commissar in it. Unless of course you're keeping them each separate 10 man squads or something.

Took everything you said to heart mate.

All infantry squads will be separate, but the offensive platoon will have a Lord Commissar to support it (he'll be mounted with the PCS in their Chimera to increase his AoD radius).

Well, I hope it works out well for you. I'm really interested in knowing how it pans out. You should fix us up a batrep or something when you've had a game or two with it.

Only parting thing I would suggest is to take the stubbers from the LRBTs and put them on the PCS Chimeras. I feel that the stubber gets better synergy from the multilazer than it does the battlecannon.