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I have been playing Vamps for approx 6 months now and I was re-reading my codex in preparation for an upcoming RTT. While reading the IoH section, something occured to me that I had not previously given any thought.

Paraphrased the rule states that with each casting a unit gains D6 wounds recovered in a strict order: champion, other command models, then RnF troops.

If a unit is completely wiped out, can it be resurrected via IoH?

My initial thoughts are 'No" BUT the wording states that the first model recovered by IoH is the champion. The implication is that, because a champion is the last casualty removed from a unit then you could indeed resurrect a unit despite in being wiped out. Comments?

If a unit is wiped out, then there is no unit there to be the target of IoN, so no, you cannot use it to resurrect units.

Invocation -

"Target one of your own Undead units...."

If there is no models left in the unit, there is no unit to target. It is therefore not a valid target for the spell.

**Edit**
Ninjad

NightChild wrote:My initial thoughts are 'No" BUT the wording states that the first model recovered by IoH is the champion. The implication is that, because a champion is the last casualty removed from a unit then you could indeed resurrect a unit despite in being wiped out. Comments?

Champions also die in challenges, or because your opponent picked them out to kill them.

I agree that if there is no unit to target then you cannot IoH and I have always played it as such.

I do think there is room for argument but I think that Janthkin best addresses my question with

Janthkin wrote:Champions also die in challenges, or because your opponent picked them out to kill them.

Cheers

There is no room for argument: if the unit isnt there, it cannot be targetted

If you want to be really sure, find out how to measure range to a non-existant unit

Gonna' agree with Nosferatu, here.

There was an old discussion, involving a Vampire with the Blood Drinker (best sword ever), and just when, exactly, a unit ceases to exist (the moment the model dies, versus the end of the phase or whatever). Wish I could remember what that definitive answer was...then again, it was 7th, so whatever.

The definitive answer is that you are part of a unit until the end of a phase, so the blood drinker COULD recreate a unit.

nosferatu1001 wrote:The definitive answer is that you are part of a unit until the end of a phase, so the blood drinker COULD recreate a unit.

Nope:

BRB FAQ wrote:Q: At what point after a unit has been wiped out do any characters
remaining count as having left the unit? (p101)
A: As soon as the last model from the unit has been removed,
any remaining characters will count as a new unit. Note that
this will cause Panic tests to all friendly units within 6"
(including the newly formed unit of character(s)) as the unit
has been destroyed.

Isnt that the 8th ed FAQ? I know in 7th ed it was not FAQ'd, at least for a very long time.

Oh i missed that you where discussing 7th.

NightChild wrote:I have been playing Vamps for approx 6 months now and I was re-reading my codex in preparation for an upcoming RTT. While reading the IoH section, something occured to me that I had not previously given any thought.

Paraphrased the rule states that with each casting a unit gains D6 wounds recovered in a strict order: champion, other command models, then RnF troops.

If a unit is completely wiped out, can it be resurrected via IoH?

My initial thoughts are 'No" BUT the wording states that the first model recovered by IoH is the champion. The implication is that, because a champion is the last casualty removed from a unit then you could indeed resurrect a unit despite in being wiped out. Comments?

The champion can be killed earlier in the case of a challenge.

Dang I didn't read the rest. Seems the issue is clear.