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Having read the meaty thread about the Grey Knights becoming Khorne loving fan-boys, this made me think of an interesting question:

Take the Black Templars for example. A chapter who detests Psykers, but maintains a (tense) tolerance for the Grey Knights. Say that a similar situation arose to the "Purged Sisters of Battle" example, and the Grey Knights decided to turn on the templars for "protective blood smears", or to maintain secrecy, or for some other reason.

Would the Templars be within their rights to defend themselves and take the Grey Knights out? They are raging Zealots at the best of times anyway, but the "betrayal" of these psykers would surely send them over the edge, and it would come to blows.

Or would this land them a one-way ticket to the halls of heresy?!?!

The battle sisters surely fought back also. Even battle sisters are unaware of the GK. Few are.

The Gk would go to insane lengths to cover up the coming of blows between the templars and knights, to the point of killing / mind swabbing an entire crusade of templars.


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None the less it could end badly for the imperium as a whole

See I was thinking of the repercussions as a whole - if the GK managed to kill an entire crusade of templars (and IMHO, that is a BIG if), unless they covered it up to 100% efficiency, the chapter would get word of this. You then have the potential scenario where the much larger templar chapter is VERY angry at the GK and the inquisition.

This isn't even taking into account that the BT are much larger as a chapter than they are supposed to be - but i reckon they'd be just angry enough to launch a counter attack on the GK - what would that mean for the imperium?

I am fairly certain that even a Black Templar High Marshal is smart enough to try the diplomatic route first. Send a complaint to the Highlords of Terra, watch as the responsible GK Brother Captain gets punished/ executed -> All is well. Besides that, covering up the destruction of a crusade isn't that unlikely, the Dark Angels managed it and there is litle reason why the Grey Knight's ( if they manage such a feat at all...) can't do the same.

liam0404 wrote:Having read the meaty thread about the Grey Knights becoming Khorne loving fan-boys, this made me think of an interesting question:

Take the Black Templars for example. A chapter who detests Psykers, but maintains a (tense) tolerance for the Grey Knights. Say that a similar situation arose to the "Purged Sisters of Battle" example, and the Grey Knights decided to turn on the templars for "protective blood smears", or to maintain secrecy, or for some other reason.

Would the Templars be within their rights to defend themselves and take the Grey Knights out? They are raging Zealots at the best of times anyway, but the "betrayal" of these psykers would surely send them over the edge, and it would come to blows.

Or would this land them a one-way ticket to the halls of heresy?!?!

If they splatted the Grey Knights, who would ever notice they were gone?

The Grey Knights go to great lengths to conceal their existence.

Kilkrazy wrote:

If they splatted the Grey Knights, who would ever notice they were gone?

The Grey Knights go to great lengths to conceal their existence.

Now this is something I hadn't thought of. What would happen in this case? Would it be attributed to Chaos marine faction or something similar?

liam0404 wrote:See I was thinking of the repercussions as a whole - if the GK managed to kill an entire crusade of templars (and IMHO, that is a BIG if), unless they covered it up to 100% efficiency, the chapter would get word of this. You then have the potential scenario where the much larger templar chapter is VERY angry at the GK and the inquisition.

This isn't even taking into account that the BT are much larger as a chapter than they are supposed to be - but i reckon they'd be just angry enough to launch a counter attack on the GK - what would that mean for the imperium?

Remember now, even though the Inquisition is concerned about the fact that the BT have essentially ignored the Codex Astartes, they haven't intervened because the BT have a perfect record in service of the Emperor.

I don't think there's much of a question: if word got out to the High Marshall, there would be a new crusade. One to purge the heretical taint of the GK.

The interesting thing about this is, nobody knows about the GK, and the BT are kinda off doing their own thing anyway. I doubt this turns into a civil war, simply because most of the other chapters have few strong ties to either side.

Are the grey knights really *so secret* that no-one even knows they exist? That's a bit silly. I can understand if their operations and dealings were a secret but to the point where no one even knew of their existence wouldn't work. Picture the scene.

Ext. a bloody, mud-streaked battlefield. Day.

Two imperial guardsmen are squatting in a trench, explosions ringing around them, bolter shells and lasfire zapping around their head.

Suddenly, a gigantic dreadknight appears from behind a bush.

Dreadnight pilot: "Die, heathen scum! Return to the foulness of the warp from which you came!"

Imperial guardsman 1: "Uh, Fred, what the hell was that?"

IG2: "Shhh! Don't say anything!"


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Music: Here come the men in grey...

Has no one in the Sol System ever been to Titan? Surely someone must have noticed the giant fortress that's sitting there. Or is this addressed somehow in the new codex?

asimo77 wrote:Has no one in the Sol System ever been to Titan? Surely someone must have noticed the giant fortress that's sitting there. Or is this addresses somehow in the new codex?

I think the part about the giant defence lasers, the vox transmissions saying "By order of His most holy Inquisition, GTFO or die!" (no, really! It's in the new Codex, if not as bluntly as I put it) and the multitude of Ordo Malleus ships in orbit is enough to get most people to take the hint.

As for the Black Templars, the fact that there's even an exception in our rules to allow us to use the (now defunct) allies rule with Grey Knights despite them being psykers kinda makes me believe that at least the higher command structure within the Black Templars know about them. If they didn't, why would they accept their presence in the first place?

Well at the least the giant defence lasers, belligerent vox transmissions, and Malleus ships, let's people know something fishy is happening there.

The new fluff is that no one ever knows about the Grey Knights ever in the history of ever because that would be bad... or something.

It's really dumb like that.

Why are they so secretive anyway? I can understand keeping chaos and daemons secret. But wouldn't knowing that there's pure (unless you're a SOB), righteous, daemon-smashing knights out there rally you against the ruinous powers?

That story about the sisters of battle...

Remember that there were very few sisters left alive anyway. It said most of them died in the attack. Its not like they took out a huge company full of them.

Anyway, the grey knights probably saw them as nearly useless for fighting the foes at hand. I'm sure they would not have felt the same of a company of black templar... they probably would have commanded them to join the fight, instead of sacrificing themselves.

Also, the only reason the blood of the sisters worked was because they were innocents. Say what you will of marines, but I don't think they are innocent of anything

Seeing them as useless doesn't make sense, if they go to such extremes as dousing themselves in blood and 666 rites, I would think they would take as much help as possible. Also it seems silly that women in PA=useless but men in PA=useful.

But there's a whole other topic for the Blood Tide.

Honersstodnt wrote: I'm sure they would not have felt the same of a company of black templar... they probably would have begged the to rescue them...

FTFY

asimo77 wrote:Seeing them as useless doesn't make sense, if they go to such extremes as dousing themselves in blood and 666 rites, I would think they would take as much help as possible. Also it seems silly that women in PA=useless but geneticly-enhanced, 8 foot tall monster-men in PA=useful.

But there's a whole other topic for the Blood Tide.

Fixed that for you.

Ok maybe you win this round, but just remember hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. Especially ones with flamethrowers.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

asimo77 wrote:Seeing them as useless doesn't make sense, if they go to such extremes as dousing themselves in blood and 666 rites, I would think they would take as much help as possible. Also it seems silly that women in PA=useless but geneticly-enhanced, 8 foot tall monster-men in PA=useful.

But there's a whole other topic for the Blood Tide.

Fixed that for you.

Which creates an entirely more complex argument revolving around the idolization of masculinity and the eschewing of feminity in the 40k universe, but that's best saved for the essay I really should get started on soon.

Fafnir wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

asimo77 wrote:Seeing them as useless doesn't make sense, if they go to such extremes as dousing themselves in blood and 666 rites, I would think they would take as much help as possible. Also it seems silly that women in PA=useless but geneticly-enhanced, 8 foot tall monster-men in PA=useful.

But there's a whole other topic for the Blood Tide.

Fixed that for you.

Which creates an entirely more complex argument revolving around the idolization of masculinity and the eschewing of feminity in the 40k universe, but that's best saved for the essay I really should get started on soon.

True, but if it'd been the other way around, with gene-monster females and "normal" men, I wouldn't be surprised that they'd have killed the men but not the women.

Oh, back on topic, I'd say it's about as ok as suggesting GW should get FAQs out faster etc. And as we all know: