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So, I got into Fantasy at the start of 8th and picked up Brets wanting an all cavalry army, then learned painfully I can't do that.
So, my question to you Dakka, is it possible to win with Brets with only 1 block of M@A?
My army right now consists of:
40 Knights
1 Lord on Pegasus
1 Standard Bearer
36 M@A
2 Damsels (One mounted one on foot)
And 10 archers

I know it's not the best collection of models but I got most of the knights for free.

I run a cav heavy bret list, backed up by a pit of 50 peasants, and two units of 10 flaming archers to strip regen for the trebs.

I do OK with it, I wont be winning ard boyz, but I win my fair share of games.

The standard in 7th was 2 blocks of 20 M@A to protect your rear while your knights did the heavy lifting.

Now adays, it seems like you'd need 4 or 5 units in the 40 man range to be effective.

I just use one unit of 50 to help deny steadfast...

Men at arms are about 2 points overcosted for what they bring, so I dont take to many.

How is str4 overcosted at 5 points?! Ws2 isn't *that* bad. Maybe one point. Maybe, but Men@Arms have a better statline than a goblin, which runs 3 points.

All things beind said and done, having a nearly unbreakable battle-line for 1000ish points with a BSB having the virtue of the peasant, along with 2 trebuchets makes for one of the best hammer/anvil mechanics in the game.

People just aren't willing to commit to spending like $500 on men at arms, honestly I wouldn't be either if I hadn't been running this exact army in 7th. (Reliquae in the center with the BSB, 2 units of 30 peasants on either side, 2 trebuchets, and the rest in Knights of the Realm)

Marauders with great weapons are 5 points each, with str 6, ws4.... add a mark of khorne for negligible cost on a big unit and its 2 attacks each....

Now tell me men at arms are properly priced.

I plan on bumping my M@A to 50 and possibly some more archers.
Are Trebs really worth it? I keep hearing people talk about them but never seen them in action.

Zarake wrote:I plan on bumping my M@A to 50 and possibly some more archers.
Are Trebs really worth it? I keep hearing people talk about them but never seen them in action.

Trebs are amazing... str10 under the hole and str5 no partials... they hurt... bad...

Trebs have added that needed additional punch in the areas my knights aren't at. They are probably one of top 3 war machines in the game.

I don't know if I want to shell out 150 bucks for three trebs, seems like there could be better units in the army that deserve the attention.
Also, my main opponents are Skaven and Empire, and they always seem to kill most of my Knights before they can swing back.

ShivanAngel wrote:Marauders with great weapons are 5 points each, with str 6, ws4.... add a mark of khorne for negligible cost on a big unit and its 2 attacks each....

Now tell me men at arms are properly priced.

How much do you pay for a chosen night?

Cuz I can tell you how much I pay for a grail knight.

and I can also tell you that Grail Knights are pound for pound better.

Seems like the property is translative.

You cannot compare units from 2 different armies in designed under 7th ed standards because part of the points cost is the role within the army in comparison to the expected usage of the unit and how it helps other units around it, coupled with the full range of toys a player has available to them.

Of course the Chaos player is going to get more bang for his buck combat wise out of 5 points! He has an abyssmal shooting phase, a meh magic phase, a human-esque movement phase, and a god-like combat phase. That Brettonian player has a decent shooting phase, a godlike charge, with no ability to maintain their combat prowess, and a rounded magic phase...

ShivanAngel wrote:Marauders with great weapons are 5 points each, with str 6, ws4.... add a mark of khorne for negligible cost on a big unit and its 2 attacks each....

Now tell me men at arms are properly priced.

You just compared to probably the best bang-for-buck infantry unit in the whole warhammer world. Not really a valid comparison.

You play the way brets have always played... combo charge with your knight units.

Steadfast have buggered them quite a bit I will admit though.

For what its worth.

2 blocks of 50 men at arms is pretty staple.

Questing knights are awesome because they dont bounce off units after the charge.

Grail knights are pretty crappy for their cost. (I stopped using them).

Lore of heavens is AMAZING (reroll ones, or make them reroll 6's) Is nice when you roll 1's for your armor save, or your opponent has killing blow.

Knights of the Realm are your bread and butter unit. 2 big units of them is pretty much a must.

2 trebs, Never leave home without them.

Mounted Yeomen are great for redirecting charges, As are pegasus knights for war maching hunting/general harrasment.

Are Knight Errants any good?
I was thinking about using a 14 strong + Paladin to steamroll things, is it worth it or should I just use KoTR?

ShivanAngel wrote:Marauders with great weapons are 5 points each, with str 6, ws4.... add a mark of khorne for negligible cost on a big unit and its 2 attacks each....

Now tell me men at arms are properly priced.

Marauders with GW are Str 5 actually. Still dead sexy though.

I was looking pretty hard at Bret battle reports when I was thinking of putting together an army of them, and the trick seems to be Multi-charging one unit, hopefully with a unit on the flank, and crushing it all at once, then over running into the next available unit or out of the way in general to set up your next charge. The men at arms help keep your rear covered and grab a hold of nastier blocks that your knights don't want to solo, while the trebs rip chunks out of blocks in preparation for knights combo charging them. Archers strip regen cheaper than just about anything out there.

Basically it is just like ShivanAngel said his list looks like, but it also looks to be a pretty tricky list to run well, with lots of clever maneuver needed and a distinct lack of screening units to force redirects and awkward charges. People also seem to like Peg. Knights too. There's a guy on Youtube that posts video battle reports using Brets pretty frequently, but I can't recall his name now.

I believe his youtube name is oncebitten360, you should deffenitly go and check some of his bat reps. He seems to win a lot of his games, think he is playing beastmen at the moment tho, but he still whips out his brets once in a while.

oncebitten, that's it. Good stuff, even if you don't play Brets. Thanks man

One of the biggest things I have issues with is steadfast. Most of my knights are at max 4 ranks.

I can use big blocks of peasants to try to strip the steadfast, but more times then not I just end up giving my opponent a lot of CR by doing that.

A lvl 2 with wildform on the peasants helps immensely tho!

Also a lvl 1/2 on foot with the prayer icon in your peasants is a must, gives them the 6+/5+ ward save.

No probs man, I collect Brets just love the look of them, never played a game of warhammer tho, trying to get into it, but I like watching his youtube videos.

I'd love to collect brets, but when i look at the 70 dollar price for 5 grail knights, and the 30 something dollars for 5 men at arms..I realize the price of the army could well go into the thousands of dollars for a sizeable one. Can't wait for them to redo the model line!

Men at arms are 35 dollars for 16, which isnt to unreasonable...

Battle pilgrims at 5 bucks a pop are what is nasty.

oh 35 for 16? thats not too bad at all! but yeah, 5 bucks per pilgrim is pretty intense. Thanks for clearing up that misconception, good to know its feasable to run a bret army then! thanks!

Also Bretts are probably the most finesse army in 8th edition... If you get unlucky and dont get the charge off, your knights probably just lost combat.

do we have a rumour for when the Brets are getting re-done yet?> or are we not going to see a new incarnation for 8th?
really hope they do a cheaper plastic range so i can get a playable Bret army going

Rumor I heard was that "expect to see the bret book a lot sooner then people think" from a GW regional manager...

Technically, its the old book out now that TK has been redone.

o thats good, and it was really only going to be between us and the Wood Elves, neither of which im adverse to seeing updated.
saying that, 'earlier than expected' literally means any time, damn!

I think that the Perry Brothers make good men at arms style infantry, but sadly they don't make plastic knights yet. Granted, I haven't checked in a few months, so they might have. Their War of the Roses line looks promising for it.

My thanks Wehr, i will have to have a look at them, its definitely men-at-arms and non-core choices im lacking in (but thats just me)

For doing Brets on a budget, Perry Brothers do some nice stuff.

If you want to stick to GW, there are some tricks you can use.

First, the Knights.

Knights-Errant, Knights of the Realm, and Grail Knights can all be done using only the basic Knights box set - the only modeling difference is the heads. Give the Knights-Errant the bare (unhelmed) heads, the KOTR the basic helmed heads, and the Grail Knights get the crested helmets. To really make the Grail Knights pop, use real metals in their heraldry (silver instead of white, gold instead of yellow).

Questing Knights can be done with a bit of work. Remove the left arm from the KOTR torso with a Dremel or file. Then fit the two-handed sword bits from the Greatswords, two-handed flails from the Flagellants, or two-handed hammers from the Knights of the White Wolf sprue.

Onto the peasants.

For Mounted Yeomen, I bought the Pistoleer box and used the horses and legs (with a bit of file work to make the legs look less armored). Torsos, arms, and heads came from Men-At-Arms and Bowmen. Granted, you have to cut the bodies in half at the belt...

For Battle Pilgrims, I just used Men-at-arms with unhelmeted heads and hand weapons. If you want to get ambitious, clean the edges of the front of the shields off and trim the tops of the shields to a point, to resemble the Knight's shields held upside-down. And a reliquae can be done combining parts from a skeletal horseman and Knight bits.