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My friend tells me he plans to use hammer hand twice on one of his units (once from the unit and once from the IC) can he do this ?

Also he said he might put a librarian in a unit and cast hammer hand three times, which seems even more unbelivebal. Can his librarian cast the same power more than once per turn ?

Thanks

Yes Hammerhand is stackable. If you have a unit and an IC with it both can cast it and get +2 strength which means if he puts another IC with Hammerhand in the unit he can cast it 3 times for a total of +3 strength.

No his Librarian can not cast the same power twice, that rule is in the rulebook.

Hammerhand simply adds +1S. There's no reason it wouldn't stack. And yes, aside from Eldar Farseerers (who have special rules preventing it RE: Spirit Stones) a single model can cast the same power twice, provided he can cast more than 1 a turn, and the ability is not a psychic shooting attack.

This has been discussed in many threads before.

and what about might of the titans ?
does he get 4d6 armour penetration if he uses it three times ?

Sanguinis wrote:
No his Librarian can not cast the same power twice, that rule is in the rulebook.

Citation needed.

Page 50 of the main rules, regarding models able to use more than one PSA: "But still cannot use the same power twice in a turn"

That's the rule for Psychic Shooting Attacks.

That is the rule under PSAs, sure. It is the "still" that made me post it without looking for the rest of the details.

The "still" is to remind you that Infantry can only fire one weapon per turn, and PSAs are counted as firing weapons.

nosferatu1001 wrote:The "still" is to remind you that Infantry can only fire one weapon per turn, and PSAs are counted as firing weapons.

"If he is allowed to fire more than one ranged weapon per turn. . ." is why THAT part still reads oddly.

I looked up some other bits and it seems to be specific to PSAs, but that leads to some other issues. Maybe.

Yup, everything stacks.


Hammerhand also goes before any Str modifers. hence why you can have Str10 Deamonhammers.




a libby could use Summoning multiple times to teliport multiple units.

heck, with 2 lvl3 libbys you could do a whole lot of jumping around the board.

kryhavok wrote:Hammerhand simply adds +1S. There's no reason it wouldn't stack. And yes, aside from Eldar Farseerers (who have special rules preventing it RE: Spirit Stones) a single model can cast the same power twice, provided he can cast more than 1 a turn, and the ability is not a psychic shooting attack.

This has been discussed in many threads before.

Old thread, I know, but I used this thread to point a friend in the right direction in regards to GKs. He went to the "First to Fight" tournament in Raleigh North Carolina and the GW judge told him he could not cast hammerhand twice with his character who had Psychic Mastery 2. They said a single power cannot be used more than once. I asked if he pulled the dakka stuff up and one of the players in his area (either beside him or across from him) provided information via his phone (where he was referencing the INAT as well) however the judge made the call and explained it to them, didn't let em use it twice.

THe judge made the right call, It desn't matter how many powers a psyker can cast, he can not cast the same power more than once unless he has a special rule allowing (i.e. Eldrad's staff).

Q: Can a pysker attempt to cast the same psychic
power more than once in a turn? (p50)
A: No, unless the psychic power itself specifically allows
it.

From the BRB FAQ.

Incorrect actually

A single model can onlty attempt to cast a specific power once.

BRB FAQ page 3 wrote:Q: Can a pysker attempt to cast the same psychic power more than once in a turn? (p50)
A: No, unless the psychic power itself specifically allows it.

Hammerhand does not specifically allow it, neither does Summoning, so neither cna be cast by the same individual psyker more than once.

The only way it stacks is if an IC is joined to the unit and both he and the unit cast it.

And you skip NFWs if you use it.

rigeld2 wrote:The only way it stacks is if an IC is joined to the unit and both he and the unit cast it.

And you skip NFWs if you use it.

If one of the IC's has Psychic Masters 2 or 3 they should still be able to activate their Force Weapon.

Thanks everyone, the reference to the FAQ is much appreciated.

Jstncloud wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:The only way it stacks is if an IC is joined to the unit and both he and the unit cast it.

And you skip NFWs if you use it.

If one of the IC's has Psychic Masters 2 or 3 they should still be able to activate their Force Weapon.

Thanks everyone, the reference to the FAQ is much appreciated.

Sure, but only the IC's NFW. The unit wouldn't be able to.
Because at the time the NFW is activated, the IC is a separate unit.

Q. Can Ahriman use the same power two or even three
times during the same turn? (p50)

A. Powers that are psychic shooting attacks can only be
used once per turn. Gift of Chaos can be used multiple
times, as it is not a psychic shooting attack. The same is
true for Warptime, but of course there is no point in
using this power more than once per turn!

rigeld2 wrote:

Jstncloud wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:The only way it stacks is if an IC is joined to the unit and both he and the unit cast it.

And you skip NFWs if you use it.

If one of the IC's has Psychic Masters 2 or 3 they should still be able to activate their Force Weapon.

Thanks everyone, the reference to the FAQ is much appreciated.

Sure, but only the IC's NFW. The unit wouldn't be able to.
Because at the time the NFW is activated, the IC is a separate unit.

It depends, Justicar Thawn is Mastery level 2 and is an upgrade character for the unit, meaning if he uses NFW the unit gets it too

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Jstncloud wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:The only way it stacks is if an IC is joined to the unit and both he and the unit cast it.

And you skip NFWs if you use it.

If one of the IC's has Psychic Masters 2 or 3 they should still be able to activate their Force Weapon.

Thanks everyone, the reference to the FAQ is much appreciated.

Sure, but only the IC's NFW. The unit wouldn't be able to.
Because at the time the NFW is activated, the IC is a separate unit.

It depends, Justicar Thawn is Mastery level 2 and is an upgrade character for the unit, meaning if he uses NFW the unit gets it too

Right - and he's not an IC. Which is what I was talking about.
If the unit (IE Thrawn in this case) can cast two powers, then they can do both - but still can't cast Hammerhand twice.

rigeld2 wrote:

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Jstncloud wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:The only way it stacks is if an IC is joined to the unit and both he and the unit cast it.

And you skip NFWs if you use it.

If one of the IC's has Psychic Masters 2 or 3 they should still be able to activate their Force Weapon.

Thanks everyone, the reference to the FAQ is much appreciated.

Sure, but only the IC's NFW. The unit wouldn't be able to.
Because at the time the NFW is activated, the IC is a separate unit.

It depends, Justicar Thawn is Mastery level 2 and is an upgrade character for the unit, meaning if he uses NFW the unit gets it too

Right - and he's not an IC. Which is what I was talking about.
If the unit (IE Thrawn in this case) can cast two powers, then they can do both - but still can't cast Hammerhand twice.

Chaos Space Marine FAQ

Q. Can Ahriman use the same power two or even three
times during the same turn? (p50)

A. Powers that are psychic shooting attacks can only be
used once per turn. Gift of Chaos can be used multiple
times, as it is not a psychic shooting attack. The same is
true for Warptime, but of course there is no point in
using this power more than once per turn!

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:
Chaos Space Marine FAQ

Q. Can Ahriman use the same power two or even three
times during the same turn? (p50)

A. Powers that are psychic shooting attacks can only be
used once per turn. Gift of Chaos can be used multiple
times, as it is not a psychic shooting attack. The same is
true for Warptime, but of course there is no point in
using this power more than once per turn!

Nice completely irrelevant FAQ quote.

BRB FAQ page 3 wrote:Q: Can a pysker attempt to cast the same psychic
power more than once in a turn? (p50)
A: No, unless the psychic power itself specifically allows
it.

Does Hammerhand allow it?

rigeld2 wrote:

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:
Chaos Space Marine FAQ

Q. Can Ahriman use the same power two or even three
times during the same turn? (p50)

A. Powers that are psychic shooting attacks can only be
used once per turn. Gift of Chaos can be used multiple
times, as it is not a psychic shooting attack. The same is
true for Warptime, but of course there is no point in
using this power more than once per turn!

Nice completely irrelevant FAQ quote.

BRB FAQ page 3 wrote:Q: Can a pysker attempt to cast the same psychic
power more than once in a turn? (p50)
A: No, unless the psychic power itself specifically allows
it.

Does Hammerhand allow it?

How is the FAQ Quote irrelevant? last time i checked it was on topic and an answer to what the OP said.
Which FAQ is right, you cant argue against the Chaos one as it says you can, even though it doesn't specifically allow it.

Well the chaos one is for a specific model, the general FAQ would be the one to apply to everything that isn't Ahriman.

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:
Chaos Space Marine FAQ

Q. Can Ahriman use the same power two or even three
times during the same turn? (p50)

A. Powers that are psychic shooting attacks can only be
used once per turn. Gift of Chaos can be used multiple
times, as it is not a psychic shooting attack. The same is
true for Warptime, but of course there is no point in
using this power more than once per turn!

Nice completely irrelevant FAQ quote.

BRB FAQ page 3 wrote:Q: Can a pysker attempt to cast the same psychic
power more than once in a turn? (p50)
A: No, unless the psychic power itself specifically allows
it.

Does Hammerhand allow it?

How is the FAQ Quote irrelevant? last time i checked it was on topic and an answer to what the OP said.
Which FAQ is right, you cant argue against the Chaos one as it says you can, even though it doesn't specifically allow it.

Actually, I can.

The Chaos one says that PSAs may only be used once per turn, and then explains that Gift and Warptime can bother be used as often as you want, since neither is a PSA. This is known as a specific allowance.
Such a specific allowance does not exist for Hammerhand.

edit: and the Chaos FAQ is irrelevant because it has to do specifically with Ahriman, and isn't general enough to override the BRB restriction.

rigeld2 wrote:

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:
Chaos Space Marine FAQ

Q. Can Ahriman use the same power two or even three
times during the same turn? (p50)

A. Powers that are psychic shooting attacks can only be
used once per turn. Gift of Chaos can be used multiple
times, as it is not a psychic shooting attack. The same is
true for Warptime, but of course there is no point in
using this power more than once per turn!

Nice completely irrelevant FAQ quote.

BRB FAQ page 3 wrote:Q: Can a pysker attempt to cast the same psychic
power more than once in a turn? (p50)
A: No, unless the psychic power itself specifically allows
it.

Does Hammerhand allow it?

How is the FAQ Quote irrelevant? last time i checked it was on topic and an answer to what the OP said.
Which FAQ is right, you cant argue against the Chaos one as it says you can, even though it doesn't specifically allow it.

Actually, I can.

The Chaos one says that PSAs may only be used once per turn, and then explains that Gift and Warptime can bother be used as often as you want, since neither is a PSA. This is known as a specific allowance.
Such a specific allowance does not exist for Hammerhand.

edit: and the Chaos FAQ is irrelevant because it has to do specifically with Ahriman, and isn't general enough to override the BRB restriction.

But the answer has no specific mention to Ahriman, it just states that PSA's can only be used once per turn whereas non PSA's can be used multiple times, the same was said for Eldar Farseers in the old rules

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:But the answer has no specific mention to Ahriman, it just states that PSA's can only be used once per turn whereas non PSA's can be used multiple times, the same was said for Eldar Farseers in the old rules

Your best argument would be that specific to the Chaos Codex, non-PSAs can be used an unlimited amount. Generally, they can't without stating an exception. Hammerhand has no such exception.

rigeld2 wrote:

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:But the answer has no specific mention to Ahriman, it just states that PSA's can only be used once per turn whereas non PSA's can be used multiple times, the same was said for Eldar Farseers in the old rules

Your best argument would be that specific to the Chaos Codex, non-PSAs can be used an unlimited amount. Generally, they can't without stating an exception. Hammerhand has no such exception.

Neither do Eldar or Chaos, however you can use them more than once, hence why it can be debatable whether they can use hammerhand more than once.

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:But the answer has no specific mention to Ahriman, it just states that PSA's can only be used once per turn whereas non PSA's can be used multiple times, the same was said for Eldar Farseers in the old rules

Your best argument would be that specific to the Chaos Codex, non-PSAs can be used an unlimited amount. Generally, they can't without stating an exception. Hammerhand has no such exception.

Neither do Eldar or Chaos, however you can use them more than once, hence why it can be debatable whether they can use hammerhand more than once.

Those powers specifically mentioned have permission - and the rest of the Chaos Codex has arguable permission. Eldar may or may not have permission based on their codex/FAQ.

The BRB FAQ is pretty explicit.