Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi guys,I've been gaming with terminators for a while now, and always the same question has been raised: why can't terminators equip AP 1 and 2 weapons?
Like multi-meltas, or plasma cannons. If you think about it, if you're going to give the best space marines your best armour, why not give them the best weapons?
Any ideas?

Probably Balance reasons. Teleporting Relentless models with a Multi-melta would spell doom for any Vehicle on the battlefield.

Yeah, haven't seen any other armys able to deep strike a melta weapon, right?

I think it's about the armor. Terminator armor is fitted for certain types of weapons to integrate with it.

It's a shame, really... But it would make space marines unbalanced, but I still want my plasma cannon - wielding terminators though! That would be DEAD useful in a game of Space Hulk.

Terminators are supposed to be heavy shock troops capable of breaking anything into a thousand tiny pieces.
They heavy weapons would slow them down.
Game terms it is for balance.

Because GW said so?

They gave the dudes special armor and special weapons which integrate into that armor, which only vehicles and the dudes in that armor can use (for the most part).

Maybe those weapons the Terminators do use were specifically designed to interface with Terminator armour, and because they don't use the armour's power source they're more practical than plasma cell weaponry?
I dunno, in truth.

mister robouteo wrote:Yeah, haven't seen any other armys able to deep strike a melta weapon, right?

Not quite sure if you're being sarcastic or not. AFAIK only CSM, Space Wolves and IG can DS meltas, and only CSM can DS Multimeltas. Which is part of the reason why Oblits are popular, there's no better delivery system for a Multimelta. Normal Termies can only take Combi-meltas which, in addition to the one-shot nature of the thing, also lacks range meaning they have to get close enough to mishap distance to get that 2D6 penetration, and even at that point they're still hoping for a good roll.

Come to think of it, Oblits basically are the "what if Termies had High AP weaponry".

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

mister robouteo wrote:Yeah, haven't seen any other armys able to deep strike a melta weapon, right?

Not quite sure if you're being sarcastic or not. AFAIK only CSM, Space Wolves and IG can DS meltas, and only CSM can DS Multimeltas. Which is part of the reason why Oblits are popular, there's no better delivery system for a Multimelta. Normal Termies can only take Combi-meltas which, in addition to the one-shot nature of the thing, also lacks range meaning they have to get close enough to mishap distance to get that 2D6 penetration, and even at that point they're still hoping for a good roll.

Come to think of it, Oblits basically are the "what if Termies had High AP weaponry".

SM can do it as well...

Obviously the reason for not giving them multimeltas or plasma guns is game balance.

They can get missile launchers and assault cannons, so things aren't that bad.

purplefood wrote:

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

mister robouteo wrote:Yeah, haven't seen any other armys able to deep strike a melta weapon, right?

Not quite sure if you're being sarcastic or not. AFAIK only CSM, Space Wolves and IG can DS meltas, and only CSM can DS Multimeltas. Which is part of the reason why Oblits are popular, there's no better delivery system for a Multimelta. Normal Termies can only take Combi-meltas which, in addition to the one-shot nature of the thing, also lacks range meaning they have to get close enough to mishap distance to get that 2D6 penetration, and even at that point they're still hoping for a good roll.

Come to think of it, Oblits basically are the "what if Termies had High AP weaponry".

SM can do it as well...

Oh right Drop Pods... Nevermind.

I think a reason would be is not to make the SM termies even more overpowered with along their 2+ armour save, giving them a heavy weapon like a melta, multi-melta, plasma cannon, or a lascannon would just doom anything on the table which them most SM players would do likely.

I suppose so. "Sigh" Guess I'll have to take that multi-melta off my terminator after all.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

purplefood wrote:

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

mister robouteo wrote:Yeah, haven't seen any other armys able to deep strike a melta weapon, right?

Not quite sure if you're being sarcastic or not. AFAIK only CSM, Space Wolves and IG can DS meltas, and only CSM can DS Multimeltas. Which is part of the reason why Oblits are popular, there's no better delivery system for a Multimelta. Normal Termies can only take Combi-meltas which, in addition to the one-shot nature of the thing, also lacks range meaning they have to get close enough to mishap distance to get that 2D6 penetration, and even at that point they're still hoping for a good roll.

Come to think of it, Oblits basically are the "what if Termies had High AP weaponry".

SM can do it as well...

Oh right Drop Pods... Nevermind.

Can't Tau DS Fusion Blaster equipped Crisis Suits?

as much as it is game balance, theres a little fluff to it too.

TACTICAL MARINES =/= TERMINATORS, right?

BOLTER =/= STORM BOLTER, right? [yes, I know.]

ML =/= CML, Right? [Again, I know.]

Terminators are a whole different beast. they carry heavy armour and are relelntless. they bitchslap everything 'till it shatters and pummel it with ammunitions

Tactical marines carry heavy/medium armour, and are fast but relenting with heavy weapons. They shoot everything 'till it shatters and only pummel it if there is no other option.

terminators are meant to close the gap between them and their targets, all the while bringing the hurt.

if you coupled that with plasma cannons, they could abseloutely destroy squads before the assault phase.

And multimeltas, they get chainfists for 5 pt. they're good and you get more then one attack.

-Loki- wrote:

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

purplefood wrote:

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

mister robouteo wrote:Yeah, haven't seen any other armys able to deep strike a melta weapon, right?

Not quite sure if you're being sarcastic or not. AFAIK only CSM, Space Wolves and IG can DS meltas, and only CSM can DS Multimeltas. Which is part of the reason why Oblits are popular, there's no better delivery system for a Multimelta. Normal Termies can only take Combi-meltas which, in addition to the one-shot nature of the thing, also lacks range meaning they have to get close enough to mishap distance to get that 2D6 penetration, and even at that point they're still hoping for a good roll.

Come to think of it, Oblits basically are the "what if Termies had High AP weaponry".

SM can do it as well...

Oh right Drop Pods... Nevermind.

Can't Tau DS Fusion Blaster equipped Crisis Suits?

Yes, they can. However, Crisis Suits are more expensive, more vulnerable, and come in smaller units. They also don't carry multi-meltas.

avondale wrote:I think a reason would be is not to make the SM termies even more overpowered with along their 2+ armour save, giving them a heavy weapon like a melta, multi-melta, plasma cannon, or a lascannon would just doom anything on the table which them most SM players would do likely.

More overpowered? Termies aren't overpowered in the first place. Giving them mass access to plasma guns or whatever would be, but that's different.

There was an old Ultramarines character in Terminator armor with a plasma blast gun back in 2nd ed or so. There was a White Dwarf article about using him years ago, back in 4th ed. Terminators with plasma weapons just feels right to me, even if GW doesn't have the option in most Terminator entries.

Brother SRM wrote:

avondale wrote:I think a reason would be is not to make the SM termies even more overpowered with along their 2+ armour save, giving them a heavy weapon like a melta, multi-melta, plasma cannon, or a lascannon would just doom anything on the table which them most SM players would do likely.

More overpowered? Termies aren't overpowered in the first place. Giving them mass access to plasma guns or whatever would be, but that's different.

There was an old Ultramarines character in Terminator armor with a plasma blast gun back in 2nd ed or so. There was a White Dwarf article about using him years ago, back in 4th ed. Terminators with plasma weapons just feels right to me, even if GW doesn't have the option in most Terminator entries.

Indeed.

I'm kind of hoping Dark Angels Terminators get the option for a Plasma Cannon as a heavy weapon. Would make my Deathwing a very happy bunny.

BA can Deepstrike Meltas too

Vanguard Vets: Infernus Pistol, Melta, MultiMelta
hell most thing in BA army can carry melta weapon

Brother SRM wrote:

avondale wrote:I think a reason would be is not to make the SM termies even more overpowered with along their 2+ armour save, giving them a heavy weapon like a melta, multi-melta, plasma cannon, or a lascannon would just doom anything on the table which them most SM players would do likely.

More overpowered? Termies aren't overpowered in the first place. Giving them mass access to plasma guns or whatever would be, but that's different.

There was an old Ultramarines character in Terminator armor with a plasma blast gun back in 2nd ed or so. There was a White Dwarf article about using him years ago, back in 4th ed. Terminators with plasma weapons just feels right to me, even if GW doesn't have the option in most Terminator entries.

Terminators with super weapons would be fine if they are more expensive and you can't take so many of them.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:

avondale wrote:I think a reason would be is not to make the SM termies even more overpowered with along their 2+ armour save, giving them a heavy weapon like a melta, multi-melta, plasma cannon, or a lascannon would just doom anything on the table which them most SM players would do likely.

More overpowered? Termies aren't overpowered in the first place. Giving them mass access to plasma guns or whatever would be, but that's different.

There was an old Ultramarines character in Terminator armor with a plasma blast gun back in 2nd ed or so. There was a White Dwarf article about using him years ago, back in 4th ed. Terminators with plasma weapons just feels right to me, even if GW doesn't have the option in most Terminator entries.

Terminators with super weapons would be fine if they are more expensive and you can't take so many of them.

Because every Terminator in the squad would have the "superweapon".

Like, y'know, the all Cyclone Missile Terminator teams.

There's no real issue with these specific weapons, since they'd likely be limited to the 'Tactical' Terminator Squad and not the 'Assault' Terminator Squad.

Actually, I think plasmaguns are especially powerful on termies. They can always fire and move, and then always assault after as long as they're in range for these actions. Same with heavy weapons such as plasma cannons.

You guys need to remember that.

Melissia wrote:Actually, I think plasmaguns are especially powerful on termies. They can always fire and move, and then always assault after as long as they're in range for these actions. Same with heavy weapons such as plasma cannons.

You guys need to remember that.

But it's not like they can't do that with any weapon on the platform.

It's the whole point of Terminator Armour.

More likely than not, if we were to be seeing Plasma Cannons or Plasma Guns and whatnot on Terminators, we'd be paying a points premium for them.

How many people would be paying 30 points for a Plasma Cannon rather than 30 points for a CML?
Or how many people would be paying something like 20 points for a Plasma Gun instead of an Assault Cannon, Heavy Flamer, or Cyclone ML?

Errr... Me?

For what they do or don't do like hammernators without a LR, too expensive or not good enough in my eyes.

:/ especially when like a 90 point IG squad with commissar/PW can instakill them.

Give em another wound and access to more weapons for more than one marine in the squad and their 40 points would be worth my elite slot.

Balance by far but for fluff the termies could be older then plasma weapons and melta. Or they dont want to take the risk of the weapon to get hot and ruin the armour and that termie armour is for space hulks not for anti tank.

Hey, if you want PC or MM relentless spam, Long fangs with logan drop podding in does some serious damage.
But I'm not sure I'd like Termies to have access to that sort of firepower. Not unless it was 1 per 5 in a unit or something. that i could handle.

Unless there's a way to get devastator terminator squads, you're unlikely to get anything too powerful.

But, as terminator armour is also called Tactical Dreadnought Armour, it's not going to happen.

Ah well... Thanks for clearing that up. But I think I have a cunning plan to evade this rule, all I'll say is "characters in termie armour..."

CSM termies can take combi weapons. Combi weapon = plasma gun. 1 round of shooting I'll grant you but plasma all the same