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Made in us
Omnipotent Lord of Change





Albany, NY

Despite the recent success of SEERBREAKER, I continually feel ripped off by points spent in offensive magic, particularly when I know what 250 points in bonebreaker buys (this is highly ironic considering the report to come!). So I retooled the old BONEBREAKER list to rock a little taste of plague magic (i.e. PLAGUE FTW), as well as dropping the WLC for some doom-flayers (!), and advertised for a game last Sunday. Oneball was happy to oblige as always (he’s the beasts, empire, dark elves player from all of these reports), and I told him to bring anything but beasts. Come game time a bunch of dark elves showed up – with 0 shooting! – and it was game time once again.

We rolled up Meeting Engagement, and I made an offhand comment about not liking the reserve rules … and immediately regretted it. Units below with a [*] were held in reserve.

BONEBREAKER 2000

L: Warlord (GEN) – sword of might, charmed shield, talisman of preservation, bonebreaker
L: Warlord (LT) – ogre blade, armor of destiny, dragonbane gem, shield, bonebreaker

H: Plague Priest – level 2, dispel scroll, opal amulet, ahw
H: Chieftain – BSB, dragonhelm, shield

C: 30 Clanrats – full command, shields, doom-flayer [*]
C: 30 Clanrats – full command, shields, doom-flayer [*]
C: 30 Clanrats – full command, shields [*]
C: 35 Slaves – pawleader, musician

S: 6 Plague Censer Bearers [*]
S: 6 Plague Censer Bearers
S: 5 Gutter Runners – poison
S: 5 Gutter Runners – poison

R: Hellpit Abombination – warpstone spikes [*]

Priest rolled up pestilent breath and plague!

DARK ELVES 2000

L: Dreadlord – crimson death, armor of 1+ save, seal of +1 dispel die

H: Death Hag – BSB, manbane, cauldron of blood
H: Sorceress – level 2 (DEATH), dispel scroll

C: 30 Spearelves – full command
C: 30 Corsairs – banner of flaming, full command, ahw [*]
[X: Assassin – rune of khaine, manbane, ahw]

S: 17 Black Guard – full command
S: 7 Witch Elves [*]
S: 7 Witch Elves
S: 7 Witch Elves

R: War Hydra

Sorceress rolled up soulblight and doom & darkness!

TERRAIN & DEPLOYMENT

The Mundane Terrain chart puked out 3 walls, 2 impassable pieces and a hill. Then I either won or was given The Roll, so deployed what I had first …



In case you missed that, all I had to deploy was my characters, the slaves and one unit of PCB. Up against no shooting I didn’t feel a compulsion to pile everybody into the slaves, so for the hell of it I formed all the characters into a super unit and awaited the army to arrive (Mistake #0). I almost immediately realized that this was a terrible idea – the plague priest is frenzied, afterall – but kept quiet. He responded as shown, and then the gutters (who weren’t given the option of rolling 1’s, though I’m sure they wanted to ) scouted.

But seriously, already this game had clearly gone crazy At least he failed to seize, so on to me for some damn reserves.

BATTLE
Turn 1


The bonebreaker general starts the game by quelling the censer bearers’ frenzy, and then the priest only keeps it in his pants thanks to the BSB’s reroll – yikes! (In hindsight, I likely should have hurled LT into the witches and got the mayhem started, but let’s see what really happened first …) The army itself arrives, and the characters disband and take up residence – priest to clanrats 1 (with flayer), general & BSB to clanrats 2 (with flayer), LT to clanrats 3. Then the hellpit slurps onto the board edge (in a very very bad spot – Mistake #1).

Magic gives the priest all he needs to IF plague on the black guard, resulting in 9 dead uber-elves and 2 witches from the right unit (2 of 7 = some hearty ladies!) after it jumps. The priest merely explodes a couple clanrats in base and dumps the dice he can’t use anyway.

Skaven domination of the shooting phase results in 1 dead witch to throwing stars



Speaking of hearty wenches, the right witches charge the right censers (with +1A from the cauldron), followed by the arrival of the dark elf reserves and a general advance. Magic puts D&D on LT’s unit (if anything). 3 witches die to smelly censers, then scrape their lumpen faces off and overrun into LT and crew.

Turn 2


Excited to see what mayhem a doom-flayer can do, I send the priest’s unit and their flayer into the left witches. Sadly the hellpit needs to move next … and I can’t figure out a way to get it closer to the hydra and all the things it wants to fight in the middle of the table. With total resignation, I send it for the flaming corsairs, figuring if the dice are kind he can pull this off (note: I completely forgot about the assassin, and the obviousness of putting him with the flaming dudes. Balls.) I did contemplate bumping into the slaves and crushing a few, to keep the pit in place, but for some reason decided not to (Mistake #2). Other things shuffled.

Magic starts off solid: pestilent breath melts 0-1 witches (dice fail), then plague goes off IF on the black guard again, choking out 5 more elves (including champ). The miscast is made of sadness, with a dimensional cascade that explodes 11 clanrats, 3-4 witches, doesn’t wound the flayer (!), and sucks the priest (including unread scroll) into the Warp.

Combat follows quickly on the heels of this magical disaster. No longer in base contact, the flayer does not get to impact or do anything (), and without the priest’s 5 S4 I5 attaks no witches die, and in fact the clanrats lose combat but hold on steadfast. Sweet baby cats, that sucked. (LT did break both of his girls' necks before they could strike though. Like a boss )



Seeing as they’re evil like that, the dark elves pounce on skaven misfortune: black guard remnant charge the flayer (flees) and redirect into the clanrat flank; hydra gets juiced up with killing blow and charges LT and crew. Magic puts D&D on LT (must not have cast first turn then), then on to fighting. LT smashes a wound onto the hydra, the handlers dice up a few clanrats, the clanrats flail at the hydra, and the hydra tries its best but can’t decapitate LT this turn (2 KB wounds = 2 4+ wards!) After t-stomp the rats lose but steadfast. Over on the flank a bunch of clanrats die – but not enough to go below 1 rank (fluffy turn for DE wounds) – and a witch gets poked in the belly. Clanrats steadfast off general ‘breaker.

Turn 3


8th edition is about numbers, right? And how much damage can an appropriately costed 175 point monster really do? The general flanks the hydra, with slaves joining in on the other side. The central flayer attempts to charge the black guard, but needing a 6 rolls 2 (which thankfully is so low that it doesn’t block the general’s unit). The hellpit suicidally keeps heading for its flaming demise, the right flayer doesn’t rally, and skirmishers be skirmishing. Magic drops D&D.

Alright, about 500 points in bonebreaker warlords, time to kill me some hydra! The general fails his fear (rerollable 10 ftl) and does nothing; LT wounds it, but the beast happily regens. At this point I confirm that the hydra is still KB augmented (I knew this, was just checking), but I was about to find out the hard way: handlers allocate to the general, score 3 hits (charmed shield FAILS to block 1), 2 KB wounds, 1 failed 4+ wound = 1 dead general. Stupidly I move the BSB into base – I’ve since decided that I was under no compulsion to do this (Mistake #3) – and it’s KB’d by the hydra. Annnnnd 5 clanrats are t-stomped. A couple clanrats and/or slaves do stab the hydra in the distended gut for 2 wounds (2 left), but the weight of kills to the monster mean we lose by 3. With no general and no BSB, everybody breaks, and the hydra runs down LT and friends. NOTE: I still don’t think I was wrong to charge everybody in there, especially considering he wasn’t rerolling from hatred (though he hit most all the time regardless). Really only the BSB thing makes me feel bad, because I can’t see why he would need to move up, but I automatically did it anyway.



The other combat finished up as expected, though I was surprised that 4 clanrats couldn’t drop 1 naked T3 elf chick. Witch pursues, black guard reform.



The hydra + cauldron combo has won this game at this point, but I still want to see what a doom-flayer does, so continue. Corsairs – and there’s the assassin! – charge the hellpit, lone witch on the left hurtles into the PCB (she is stunk to death, along with 1 censer). Magic is immaterial, and the hellpit is indeed killed by the now-flaming assassin and his corsair buddies.

Turn 4


Censers flank the black guard and the flayer charges them frontally (mostly to get impacts and keep the dreadlord from moving over to the PCB). Slaves keep running, but clanrats and other flayer rally. In combat, the flayer gets an awesome 1 impact, which fails to wound (3+ dude, come on!), then is cut down by the dreadlord; and the censers poison 2 of their own for 0 black guard, lose none to the flank elf and then shred the remainder. The last 3 beat the dreadlord but he holds (map is wrong, this fight continued).



Hydra charges the rallied clanrats, they terror-panic off the table; it redirects into the flayer, which likewise terror-panics away. I too am terrified of hydras Also, the dreadlord kills the last PCB and I call it.

HYDRA/CAULDRON VICTORY

Blarg, what a failfest. Momentum was certainly mine early on, with plague devastating his scary black guard death squad, but that thrilling charge into 70 points of witches ended up detonating the entire flank and hope of having anything survive the hydra rape in the center. Really though, kicking myself over the hellpit mis-placement, and tossing the BSB to his demise - even without KB, and without failing fear, I'd say a hydra can eat that little 3/6+ save toolbag no problem. Certainly with my dice here anyway!

Have been fiddling with the list since then, but nothing very huge, since I learned next to nothing here. Plague priest makes me happy, and you have about a 33% chance of getting plague on a level 2, so I'll take that. Frankly, my grey seer was mostly there to give me a dispel bonus, since I just used him to IF plague anyway

- Salvage

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/09 20:37:10


KOW BATREPS: BLOODFIRE
INSTAGRAM: @boss_salvage 
   
Made in ca
Been Around the Block




Oh burn.
Sorry to hear about this one. Bad dice luck + bad tactical errors = this kind of thing too often!

Well, these games have to happen sometime. Bonebreakers can't ALWAYS win hardcore, right?

Thanks for the report. A pleasure as always...although the Skaven player in me cringed throughout.
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought




Potters Bar, UK

Wow Salvage! that was pretty brutal :S
your dice seem to have abandoned you on this one.
Great report as always though, thanks for sharing

inmygravenimage wrote:Have courage, faith and beer, my friend - it will be done!
MeanGreenStompa wrote:Anonymity breeds aggression.
Chowderhead wrote:Just hit the "Triangle of Friendship", as I call it.
 
   
Made in us
Auspicious Aspiring Champion of Chaos





On the perfumed wind

Oof! I was scrolling down, saw his deployment and thought "Hm. That looks doable."

Then I scrolled down and saw your deployment (with all those missing units) and winced. Gruesome! The picture diagram really relays the brutality of your reserve rolls more than the list did.

Not having any random movers myself, it took me some looking to figure out how badly handcuffed you were on movement with the hellpit. Having to rumble before the slaves could get out of the way really hurt. If you had it to over again, hellpit between CR1 and CR2 instead?

Cauldron is brutal, especially if you don't have a dwellers, pit, crack's call or some such to get rid of it. I wish the anvil worked similarly, with no chance of a misfire. The flexibility it grants is pretty great.

Finally, I've heard other skaven players lament the power of the war hydra, but this really drove it home again. I start to take my flaming cannon for granted, I guess. I can see how it's a pretty tough hurdle to clear for the rats.

Anyhow, thanks for the batrep. I know it's tough sometimes to pour more energy into writing up a report after a tough loss like that. Kudos to you, hope to see it turn around next time! I'd be interested in seeing your tweaks (minor as they may be).

RZ

“It was in lands of the Chi-An where she finally ran him to ground. There she kissed him deeply as he lay dying, and so stole from him his last, agonized breath.

On a delicate chain at her throat, she keeps it with her to this day.”
 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Lord of Change





Albany, NY

Thanks for the comments and commiserations, lads. This was one of those reports that went south so quickly (before it began!) that I had to post it up regardless

Red_Zeke wrote:Not having any random movers myself, it took me some looking to figure out how badly handcuffed you were on movement with the hellpit. Having to rumble before the slaves could get out of the way really hurt. If you had it to over again, hellpit between CR1 and CR2 instead?

Cauldron is brutal, especially if you don't have a dwellers, pit, crack's call or some such to get rid of it. I wish the anvil worked similarly, with no chance of a misfire. The flexibility it grants is pretty great.

Finally, I've heard other skaven players lament the power of the war hydra, but this really drove it home again. I start to take my flaming cannon for granted, I guess. I can see how it's a pretty tough hurdle to clear for the rats.

Anyhow, thanks for the batrep. I know it's tough sometimes to pour more energy into writing up a report after a tough loss like that. Kudos to you, hope to see it turn around next time! I'd be interested in seeing your tweaks (minor as they may be).
The diagram does a poor job of showing how crowded my edge was, after the line moved off of it. Pretty sure I could have wedged the HPA in between CR1 and CR2, and after those charges Turn 3 he'd definitely have room to shamble up. The unavoidable bit was that his corsairs were handily reserving in the turn after my hellpit, so he would always be lined up to swoop in and eventually intercept. That said, there was a lot more support to the left, as well as his own units in the way, so the a-bomb wouldn't have been headed in alone as on the right. (This is all before the hydra cracked everything open ...)

Yea, skaven have a real lack of functional flaming, or combat troops worth giving the flaming banner to. WFT are junk (there, I said it!) without 50-man slave units to pin flammable things down, and even then you need a dumb opponent to take that charge and a handful of luck for the thrower to function. Scorch is awesome but not for dealing with anything regen-ing that matters (trolls / hydras / hellpits). I'd love to take storm vermin with the flame banner, but I don't have the 40-50 stormies I'd need to run to matter, and at that point it's probably still a risk to fight a hydra, with its armor and all that. Nobody else really warrants being light on fire, mostly because they're either plague monks (who have better banners) or need to have a BSB walk with them, in which case they're probably terrible fighters or using magic weapons anyway.

Here's the tweaked list, which adds in One Obvious Answer to the things that drive me crazy in the DE book (cauldron, hydra), along with other big nasties:

L: Warlord (GEN) – sword of might, charmed shield, talisman of preservation, bonebreaker
L: Warlord (LT) – ogre blade, armor of destiny, dragonbane gem, shield, bonebreaker

H: Plague Priest – level 2, foul pendant, potion of foolhardiness, ahw
H: Chieftain – BSB, dragonhelm, ironcurse icon, shield
H: Engineer - brass orb

C: 30 Clanrats – full command, shields, doom-flayer
C: 30 Clanrats – full command, shields, doom-flayer
C: 30 Clanrats – full command, shields
C: 35 Slaves – pawleader, musician

S: 6 Plague Censer Bearers
S: 6 Plague Censer Bearers
S: 5 Gutter Runners
S: 5 Gutter Runners

R: Hellpit Abomination

Without skitterleap getting the orb into position will certainly be harder or trickier to time right (you can march and throw it, right?), but I've never played with it and the payoff is huge. Also was able to pay for it by just dropping gutter poison and hellpit spikes, so that it's more or less 'free'. Most of my tweaking now is in regards to the BSB and priest. I want the priest to have a steady ward, since he's halfway fighty and his magic works in base contact, and the BSB I want to be somewhat useful and not suck entirely. I'll miss the scroll, but 25 points leaves no decent ward option ... Potion of +1A is so the priest can have a mighty 6 attaks on a charge, at his thunderous S4

- Salvage

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/04/10 14:57:49


KOW BATREPS: BLOODFIRE
INSTAGRAM: @boss_salvage 
   
Made in us
Hunting Glade Guard




you could probably get a flail for your plague priest so he hits at str6 on the charge, but he'd only get 5 attacks that way with the potion. also, are the gutter runners honestly that effective without poison? they've not particularly strong, but i guess if you are using them to kill war machines and set up rear charges or something instead of harass the flanks they wouldn't need it.

i've never seen the brass orb used but if it's one of those 'initiative check or bite it' items then that would certainly deal with most monsters.

i'd like to try playing against this list, if you've got the time for it. i'll even field a treeman for you to eat! ;p
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Lancaster PA

Man, that was brutal. I kind of wanted to curl up under a blanket after reading that. Practically an exercise in how very few points can smash quite a bit. The hydra especially, but even the witches really pulled more than their weight. I saw those tiny little units in the list and thought "Why bother?" Whew... now I know.


Woad to WAR... on Celts blog, which is mostly Circle Orboros
"I'm sick of auto-penetrating attacks against my behind!" - Kungfuhustler 
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought




Potters Bar, UK

yeah those wyches were something else!
but the hydra was the icing on the cake (or final nail in the coffin if you prefer.... )

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/10 21:05:16


inmygravenimage wrote:Have courage, faith and beer, my friend - it will be done!
MeanGreenStompa wrote:Anonymity breeds aggression.
Chowderhead wrote:Just hit the "Triangle of Friendship", as I call it.
 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Albany NY

Yea Hydra was the big winner of the day for that game. The Witch Elves were something I have been thinking about for a bit, 70 points for 21 attacks at I6 and poison with Hatred. They probably won't win combats but for the low cost if I can maul a bigger unit and soften them up for my bigger blocks. Add the Cauldron and they get even more nasty, I try to not run disgusting lists as I don't like to fight them so don't want to subject others to them, so no double Hydras, no Dragons, no multiple Cauldrons. I really like playing Boss because win or lose I always leave with new ideas or different ways to use certain troops, he also writes much better Batreps than I could so that is a bonus as well.

Oneball 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Lancaster PA

That really is interesting when you put it that way. I had been knocking around DE lists, and obviously psychotic naked chicks with knives is highly appealing. I had been thinking that I needed 20 or more per unit to make it worth while, but cheap cruise missiles of witches is really appealing, if only because the models are pants and replacements expensive. Hrm...


Woad to WAR... on Celts blog, which is mostly Circle Orboros
"I'm sick of auto-penetrating attacks against my behind!" - Kungfuhustler 
   
Made in us
Hunting Glade Guard




it seems that witch elves are kind of like wardancers in their basic application - they have nothing to speak of in terms of protection but they can unload a lot of hurt very quickly. i kind of like the idea of a bunch of smaller blocks of either, but against armies that shoot, or direct damage spells, small groups of dudes get blasted and bit it before they see combat. i suppose that saves your other dudes from a similar fate, and with several targets it's harder to stop the pain train from arriving at the platform, though, especially if they don't cost that much per model.
   
Made in no
Regular Dakkanaut




ouch. Now I remember why I like my hydras so much

No easy answers either... When I last faced skaven my hydra got eaten by a HPA though

cudos for running bonebreakers
   
Made in gb
Battlefield Professional





England

Another excellent report, Salvage. Thanks for posting.

I don't play Skaven, but I have a friend that does. He talks about Warlord Queek quite frequently, more importantly here, Queek's ability to field 'Super Stormvermin'. Would they be worth considering to carry a flaming banner for these kind of situations, or do you think they're over-costed?

 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Lord of Change





Albany, NY

Thanks for the continuing comments guys, even if they're on what was a pretty horrific game

I'd like to run 40+ stormvermin with the flaming banner even without Queek, seems like a decently choppy, decently pointed combat unit, which would give me some sort of infantry that weren't total losers But I am hindered by modeling limitations at the moment - even if I could afford 4+ of the new silververmin kit, my army isn't actually made from skaven models ...

And yes 'Sins, 'ditch the pit into it' is a pretty good answer to most (non-flaming) things Though I am trying to leave the a-bomb at home, he's not the most enjoyable thing to face.

New reports will happen eventually, I'm struggling through the insanely busy end of a semester right now, and then doing stuff until pretty much June. After that though I've got a load of playtesting to do in preparation for Crossroads

- Salvage

KOW BATREPS: BLOODFIRE
INSTAGRAM: @boss_salvage 
   
 
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