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This is my first attempt at making a DE list as a backup to my main armies, so I want to keep it to the cheaper plastic models only while still allowing it to perform on the tabletop.

HQ: 195
Archon, Agoniser, Shadow Field 110 (with Trueborn)
Succubus, Agoniser 85 (with Wyches)

ELITE:163
9 Trueborn, 3 Blasters, Dracon w/ Venom Blade* 163

TROOPS: 580
10x Kabalite Warriors, Blaster, Dark Lance 130
10x Kabalite Warriors, Blaster, Dark Lance 130
9x Wyches, 2x Hydra Gauntlets, Haywire Grenades, Hekatrix w/ Agoniser* 160
9x Wyches, 2x Hydra Gauntlets, Haywire Grenades, Hekatrix w/ Agoniser* 160

TRANSPORTS:210
3 x Raiders, Dis. Cannons, Flickerfield 210 (squads with * use the Raiders)

HEAVY: 345
3x Ravagers, Flickerfield 345

Plan: Fairly simple I think, Wyches claim and Warriors hold objectives while Ravagers hunt transports and lighter tanks. Archon/Trueborn go after AV14.

The other option is to drop the Trueborn, run the Archon with the other Wyches and take some Reavers.

Trueborn dont make a good retinue with an archon. Incubi or wyches probably do it better since trueborn are meant for shooting and not assaulting. Truborn imo should drop down to x4 men with blasters. Very efficient for the points. You have miscalculated on your part though on the unit numbers, the Succubus is suppose to go with the wyches who are numbered at 10 in a raider. You'll have to drop a wych with a weapon to fit in your HQ. Swap dis cannons on raiders for dark lances and I'd swap dark lances on the warriors to splinter cannons, raiders are better for anti tank with their mobility

kenshin620 wrote:Trueborn dont make a good retinue with an archon. Incubi or wyches probably do it better since trueborn are meant for shooting and not assaulting. Truborn imo should drop down to x4 men with blasters. Very efficient for the points.

My thinking on the Trueborn was that I could dismount and assault a unit in the same turn. However it sounds like I should try and split up that responsibility more.

You have miscalculated on your part though on the unit numbers, the Succubus is suppose to go with the wyches who are numbered at 10 in a raider. You'll have to drop a wych with a weapon to fit in your HQ.

Maybe my wording wasn't clear but there should only be 9 Wyches total, leaving enough room for the Succubus. Tactically the idea of burying the Succubus in the Wyche squad makes sense right?

Swap dis cannons on raiders for dark lances and I'd swap dark lances on the warriors to splinter cannons, raiders are better for anti tank with their mobility

I was just worried that I wouldn't be able to fit in the Dis. Cannons anywhere else and they seem to be a great counter to all the Terminator and/or FnP infantry we're seeing these days.

minigun762 wrote:Archon, Agoniser, Shadow Field 110 (with Trueborn)
Succubus, Agoniser 85 (with Wyches)

No particular issues with them on an individual unit level. I have some questions about how you're using them though. Frankly, I would save the points and drop one of them and just have the other ride with the Wyches and leave behind your idea of a secondary assault role for the Trueborn - but now I'm getting ahead of myself, let's look at the rest of the list;

ELITE:163
9 Trueborn, 3 Blasters, Dracon w/ Venom Blade* 163

<--does that convey 'cringe'
Okay, so let's just consider at this for a second - you're paying out some serious points in order to have a lot of anti-tank firepower, than you're paying out even more points to make the unit a sort of soft assault unit. When are you planning to assault with them as opposed to using the 45 points of tank hunting equipment? DE don't have 45 points to just toss away - so you really should be using the tank hunting power as much as possible until literally every vehicle out there is dead and gone, and at that point it's well past the time you really need assault. Meanwhile the Archon (at a whopping 100+ points) is sitting around with a unit of light assault troops (optimal for assaulting stuff like Guardsmen, or Gants, or maybe small units of Orks) while wielding an Agoniser, the great equalizer versus Space Marines, or Monstrous Creatures and the like. He's probably wondering why he even unpacked his awesome Shadowfield this morning.

Archon/Trueborn go after AV14.

Things that don't help you versus AV 14 - the venom blade, the dracon, the extra 5 guys (at 20 points or so a pop) armed with splinter rifles, oh yeah - and the Archon himself. How many points is that? WOuld it be enough to pay for a Wych unit that could hunt troops without weakening the ability of the Blaster wielding Trueborn to hunt AV 14 at all? You're tossing a *lot* of points around to help pay for things the unit isn't even supposed to do. I really think you need to refocus what you're doing with them, check out me not yet fully completed DE Tactica (link is in my sig) for a look at Trueborn and how dangerous they are because you can be lost in the options they have. Focus them, build them to do what you need, and save the points for other units.

TROOPS: 580
10x Kabalite Warriors, Blaster, Dark Lance 130
10x Kabalite Warriors, Blaster, Dark Lance 130

So these are footsloggers you're using as anti-tank snipers?
I think you're missing the drive of what makes DE dangerous, and that is our speed. Consider this build;
5 Warriors with Blaster in a Raider with Flickerfield.
*Exact* same point cost as your above unit.
*Exact* same amount of dark matter weaponry.
But which is more dangerous and effective? The men in the Raider can move up to 12" and still fire their lance. That gives them a lot more mobility on the board, able to hunt tanks as opposed to just shooting at what they have line of fire to. Also, they're much more likely to be able to use their Blaster on the enemy. Also they have the option of moving up to 24" on Turn 5 to claim any objective on the board, not just one in your backfield they're going to sit on and while praying that 3 Marines don't look sideways at them and kill them all. You now have a better tool for attack and mobility that still does the same job and is probably harder to kill. (though I'll agree, more expensive plastic wise - sorry). I just hate to see a DE general tossing away the speed of the codex without thinking about it first.

9x Wyches, 2x Hydra Gauntlets, Haywire Grenades, Hekatrix w/ Agoniser* 160
9x Wyches, 2x Hydra Gauntlets, Haywire Grenades, Hekatrix w/ Agoniser* 160

No complaints here.

TRANSPORTS:210
3 x Raiders, Dis. Cannons, Flickerfield 210 (squads with * use the Raiders)

I generally frown on giving up lances for Dissies, but since your army rather lacks in anti-infantry I'll agree the firepower is probably needed. I do think that playing with some of the points I raised could afford you some alternate options which you could do in plastic, though most of them would require some modding work. Considering your build constraints these are okay.

HEAVY: 345
3x Ravagers, Flickerfield 345

Never complain about Ravagers.

I think your big point sink is the HQs and that Trueborn squad. I also think your Troop slots could use expanding, and would probably drop one of the HQs to add more Wyches/Warriors.

You need 10 models in a wych squad if you want to take two wych weapons.

Trueborn can dismount, shoot and assault in theory, but in practice they never should. 3 Blasters means they want to be shooting at vehicles the majority of the game, which means the rest of the squad is wasted and their opportunities to assault infantry will be limited. They aren't great in combat in any case, you would often be better off assaulting with just the Archon to avoid giving your opponent an easy way of getting kills and winning the combat.

Succubus with the Wyches is a good way to give them some extra punch, but she is an IC so can't truely hide in the squad once she gets to combat.

You don't need Disintegrators any more, Dark Lances and Blasters are common enough that you can use them for dealing with Terminators, and they are more effective in many cases because they cause ID as well (so really scare Nobs and Paladins as well as any ICs who find themselves with the squad shot down around them). If you want anti infantry from your vehicles take Venoms instead, 12 poisoned shots on the move is a crazy amount of firepower and more effective against a wide range of targets (better than the Disintegrator against hordes, MCs and equally effective against MEQ).

As far as your actual list goes:
The Archon isn't really that helpful built the way he is, essentially all he can do is provide a bit more punch in combat but the Succubus does that just as effectively for cheaper. Except in some more unusual builds, main reason to take the Archon is if you want access to some of the more exotic gear (Husk Blade/Soul Trap combo etc), particularly at high point levels when you have points to play with.

With two units of Wyches and this being on the lower end of the points scale I would seriously suggest you just take 2 Haemonculi as your HQs, Liquifers and a Shattershard optional. Giving the Wyches Pain Tokens is far more helpful than the potential added punch from a single character. Because they are 3 for 1 you could still take the Succubus if you have some points left over and wanted some more punch as well.

The best loadouts for Trueborn are 3-4 Blasters in a Venom or 2 Dark Lances + a Raider (as a quasi Ravager). The only reason to take large units is if you are taking the Duke and want to do a unit of super poison death.

Warriors should never mix weapons, almost all the options they have available have completely different ranges and prefered targets. Taking a Dark Lance means you are going to be sitting them on a back objective and taking shots a vehicles, which is fine except the Blaster will very rarely be able to shoot due to its limited range. If you want a mobile anti tank unit take 5 with a Blaster, maybe a Blast Pistol in a Raider/Venom. If you want a flexible anti infantry unit then take the Splinter Cannon and fly around being annoying, but you don't take a Blaster as well because of the different preferred targets.

The Ravagers and Wyches are solid, although I would probably take Razorflails rather than Hydra Gauntlets in your case. Statistically Razorflails come out on top on average, but the Hydras allow for a much greater spread (so you could theoretically kill 7-8 guys vs 3 for the Razorflails). They also don't factor in the effects of any of the Drug results, Hydras become much more attractive if for example you have the Duke (so have a much better chance of getting re-rolls to wound, which massively increase the damage of the Hydras but does nothing for the Razorflails). YMMV.

Thanks for the great advice everyone, I've only ever played with PA armies so going Xeno has been a bit of a culture shock. I have various questions/comments on all the help provided so far.

1) I was running with an Archon/Succubus combo just because it mirrored the Warrior/Wych combo. Looking at it again, it doesn't seem like the Archon serves a purpose that the cheaper Succubus can't do as well if not better so I think he's gone.

2) I'm going to revisit the Trueborn. Its obvious now that I've commited the sin of trying to have one squad do too much. Instead of an escort for the now defunct Archon, I think I'll split them into 2 smaller squads with blasters and raiders. More targets and more guns on the battlefield for around the same point cost.

3) Good point about the 2 Wyche weapons. I originally had 10 guys in the squad but had to cut one for the Raider spot. As far as which weapon to pick, I went with the Hydra mostly because of the low base attacks of a normal Wych seemed to render the rerolls less significant then more attacks. That and i think its a better looking weapon. I might play around with them and see what I prefer on the tabletop as they're the same point cost.

4) I'll revist the Warrior's weapons and role. I had originally thought of them as objective holders but that might be going against the strengths of the DE. If nothing else, I can always drop the Dark Lance and mount them in a Raider.

5) For the Disintegrator, I might keep a few on the Raiders just to mix up the overall look of the army. Or should I dedicated one Ravager to all Disintegrators instead?

6) I've considered the Haemonculi but aren't they a metal only option? If so it goes against the theme of the army.

7) Lastly, is there anything that Reaver bikers bring to the table that I'm missing? Seems like they're just a fast moving anti-infantry squad.

1. Grunt.
2. Nod.
3. Mugwub.
4. Yar.
5. I'd tend to leave them on the assault vehicles and let the Ravagers focus on anti-mech. The assault vehicles should move flat out on turn 1, and it's better to be giving up the anti-infantry you won't need till turn 2-3 rather than the anti-mech you probably will need right away.
6. New Coven plastics are probably coming in the next wave - but, yes, it would be a creative kitbash to do a Haemon with the current available plastics (though not impossible with a bit of work. Really it depends how much you like kitbashing)
7. They are a suboptimal choice that fills roles performed better by Wyches and Warriors. You can take them and have them do okay for you, but you should never really take them except in specific filling of points roles, or when you've already maxed out your Troop selections.

That was a truly terrific response Thor665, I wish I could give you cookies!

Ok here is my revised list thank to everyone's great advice.

HQ: 85
Succubus, Agoniser (with Wyches)

ELITE:163
4 Trueborn, 3 Blasters
4 Trueborn, 3 Blasters

TROOPS: 526
10x Warriors, Blaster, Splinter Cannon
10x Warriors, Blaster, Splinter Cannon
9x Wyches, 1x Hydra Gauntlets, Haywire Grenades, Hekatrix w/ Agoniser
9x Wyches, 1x Hydra Gauntlets, Haywire Grenades, Hekatrix w/ Agoniser

TRANSPORTS:380
3 x Raiders, Dis. Cannons
1 x Raiders, Dark Lance
2 x Raiders, Dark Lance, Splinter Racks (Warriors ride in these)

HEAVY: 345
3x Ravagers, Flickerfield

Total: 1499

Plan: Ravagers and Trueborn hunt armor and Wyches and Warriors hunt infantry. Raiders provide support if they aren't blown out of the air.

minigun762 wrote:10x Warriors, Blaster, Splinter Cannon

As an alternate to this consider the following build which I use quite often;

5 Warriors, Blaster, in a Venom w. Splinter Cannon upgrade.

Does better at troop killing, and allows the Blaster to fire at a vehicle while the cannons mow into infantry. Also, saves you some points (perhaps to add FFs to all your vehicles). The big catch is you need to make Venoms, the big plus is the Vyper kit is plastic and serves as the optimal base starting point with a few DE grubbins packed on to taste for style.