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Made in au
Incorporating Wet-Blending






Australia

 Buzzsaw wrote:
While not his intention, selling the kits in this manner would allow one to make use of them in a skirmish game context, very provocative...

I don't know... actually selling the things people want to buy? That's a bit outside of Kingdom Death's skillset.

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis 
   
Made in ca
Honored Helliarch on Hypex





Canada

 AlexHolker wrote:
 Buzzsaw wrote:
While not his intention, selling the kits in this manner would allow one to make use of them in a skirmish game context, very provocative...

I don't know... actually selling the things people want to buy? That's a bit outside of Kingdom Death's skillset.


I'm not associated with Kingdom Death and I find that comment to be in poor taste.

Do us all a favour Alex, please don't try to sound witty or intelligent or bash people with sarcasm; wit is not your friend.

Return to your basement dwelling and begone.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/02 16:01:23


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence

I'm not a big fan of the base inserts. The 10 that come with it will be okay, but buying more and having all the figs based on faces seems silly to me. I guess I prefer more realistic terrain on my figure bases, and more variety.

Having said that, everything else is looking really good. I'm trying not to ge ALL the extra figs, but a few are really too nice for me to not splurge on.

I can't wait to see the next expansion!

Jake

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/02 16:06:23


Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. 
   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran




Personally, I really hope that Adam doesn't include items that are already available from his general release (like the Twilight Knight pin-up) because you can already get them for the exact same cost (it had been a difference if they had been cheaper or would come with some additinal things)! I'd rather see Adam add a new item and continue to extend his range.

   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut





UK

well you'd save on postage.....

 
   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran




Ye, but I am sure it is possible to combine different orders in the end. I assume that quite a few people already own the Twilight Knight, seeing how it is about the first miniature that KD produced. Those that already got it will not get a second one, while it is more likely that they'll add a new item. People who just discovered KD, and own neither the Twilight Knight or the new item could just as well add the iew item as well as getting the Twilight Knight seperatedly.

Judging by the grayed-out image, though, it surely isn't the Twilight Knight that will be added next. If Adam does add it, I hope he will do it (or any other of the already existing general release) as a "bonus" to another stretch goal.

   
Made in us
[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

Grefven, they were referring to the teaser text of 475K. And old favorite / familiar, or the like. So, an existing sculpt...

Bases are making this significantly pricier for me... I'd like to see more things included for Survivor. Every stretch can't be add-ons, and it's costing me $40 more to get those bases.

Worth it to me, but I'd like to see the remaining armor variants doubled for Survivor (hopefully 450K doubles the dragon armor, like he did when the Lioness was unlocked and the Phoenix dancer).
   
Made in us
[DCM]
.







 AlexHolker wrote:
 Buzzsaw wrote:
While not his intention, selling the kits in this manner would allow one to make use of them in a skirmish game context, very provocative...

I don't know... actually selling the things people want to buy? That's a bit outside of Kingdom Death's skillset.


As already noted, that's a bit uncalled for, especially as:

1) The Kingdom Death Kickstarter currently sits at $430K - clearly they're selling something that someone wants to buy

2) The creator regularly provides updates and listens to feedback - something of a rarity on Kickstarter and surely a sign of a creator who cares?

Now, maybe your comment was meant a psuedo-joke reference to his previous practice of selling limited quantities of figures? That sell out really quickly?

If so, OK, fair point, but it probably should have been expressed differently.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Akron, OH

 Alpharius wrote:
2) The creator regularly provides updates and listens to feedback - something of a rarity on Kickstarter and surely a sign of a creator who cares?


This has been said a few times, what Kickstarters are you people backing where they aren't? WHY are you backing them?

-Emily Whitehouse| On The Lamb Games
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
.







Seriously?

CMON has really dropped the ball on updates for RELIC KNIGHTS and SEDITION WARS - but you know when the updates stopped?

AFTER the Kickstarter closed!

I'd love to have a functioning crystal ball and all that, but, you know...
   
Made in nl
Zealous Knight







 Alpharius wrote:
Seriously?

CMON has really dropped the ball on updates for RELIC KNIGHTS and SEDITION WARS - but you know when the updates stopped?

AFTER the Kickstarter closed!

I'd love to have a functioning crystal ball and all that, but, you know...


Would it have made a difference to you knowing they'd not update as much as you'd like? I mean, you're still getting a gak-ton of nice models (with SW at least ) at a good price - you just don't quite get to read as much about them in advance as you'd like.
...which is good - gets that "to paint" pile down a little in the time you'd otherwise have wasted

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/02 17:22:30


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Akron, OH

 Alpharius wrote:
Seriously?

CMON has really dropped the ball on updates for RELIC KNIGHTS and SEDITION WARS - but you know when the updates stopped?

AFTER the Kickstarter closed!

I'd love to have a functioning crystal ball and all that, but, you know...


So..

Responds to Feedback, Posts Updates often:
-Mantic
-Kingdom Death
-Dreamforge
-On The Lamb
-JunkRobot
-Imbrian Arts
-Gangfight Games
-Impact!

Lacks in Communication, doesn't update:
-CoolMini


Yes, I see the Rarity.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/02 17:27:12


-Emily Whitehouse| On The Lamb Games
 
   
Made in us
Expendable Defender Destroid Rookie





Add Imbrian Arts to the first list. He's had good comms and taken a lot of feedback to heart as well
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Akron, OH

So basicly, just CoolMini (And probably Wyrd) who have made $2,642,388 (Visibly) off Kickstarters this year.

So apparently the way to great success is to not listen to fans, and don't update.

-Emily Whitehouse| On The Lamb Games
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
.







 Cyporiean wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:
Seriously?

CMON has really dropped the ball on updates for RELIC KNIGHTS and SEDITION WARS - but you know when the updates stopped?

AFTER the Kickstarter closed!

I'd love to have a functioning crystal ball and all that, but, you know...


So..

Responds to Feedback, Posts Updates often:
-Mantic
-Kingdom Death
-Dreamforge
-On The Lamb
-JunkRobot
-Imbrian Arts
-Gangfight Games
-Impact!

Lacks in Communication, doesn't update:
-CoolMini


Yes, I see the Rarity.


Its so awesome to call someone out on the Internet, isn't it?

Really racks up the e-cool points!

And I love how you turned an on topic positive about this Kickstarter into some sort of off topic tough guy post - well done!
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Akron, OH

 Alpharius wrote:

Its so awesome to call someone out on the Internet, isn't it?

Really racks up the e-cool points!

And I love how you turned an on topic positive about this Kickstarter into some sort of off topic tough guy post - well done!


Hey, when your wrong its good to be sarcastic about it.

Don't make stuff up and we won't have to go off topic

-Emily Whitehouse| On The Lamb Games
 
   
Made in us
Expendable Defender Destroid Rookie





To be fair, there are more kickstarters than just minis ones. The other kickstarters I've done had disappearing comms after funding (except for major events like PDF availability)

Examples include:
Dungeon World
Traveller
Goblins Drool, Faeries Rule
Wasteland 2
Minigame Library
Dwarven Gladiators (Eastern Front Studios - not terrible, but it could definitely be better)
Andy Hopp's Low Life Miniatures

To name a few. I've found that the mini producers are some of the most thoughtful and reliable creators on the website when it comes to updates and comms.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/02 17:40:16


 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
.







 Cyporiean wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:

Its so awesome to call someone out on the Internet, isn't it?

Really racks up the e-cool points!

And I love how you turned an on topic positive about this Kickstarter into some sort of off topic tough guy post - well done!


Hey, when your wrong its good to be sarcastic about it.

Don't make stuff up and we won't have to go off topic


I think your e-peen building should be all done now, OK?

Thanks!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/02 17:45:08


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Akron, OH

 Alpharius wrote:
I think your e-peen building should be all done now, OK?


Your the one that keeps adding to it Alph.


If we could go back on topic for a moment...

Poots, I know the Kickstarter backend is a big pile of crap, but could update the Survivor/Deluxe images to include the stuff that's been added?

-Emily Whitehouse| On The Lamb Games
 
   
Made in us
Major




In a van down by the river

grefven wrote:
Personally, I really hope that Adam doesn't include items that are already available from his general release (like the Twilight Knight pin-up) because you can already get them for the exact same cost (it had been a difference if they had been cheaper or would come with some additinal things)! I'd rather see Adam add a new item and continue to extend his range.


That would be much more valid if he actually kept the things in stock, which the periodic times I've checked over the years is the exception rather than the rule. Also, I would prefer a gaming piece in plastic to a resin "sit on the shelf and look pretty" piece. I've never particularly cared for resin models; I can appreciate the advantages of the medium but plastic will always be my preference because it's the nice middle-ground of the durability of metal and the detail of resin.

Given that the Twilight Knight was one of the Experiment of Death pieces and portions of it came out poorly, it would be a good add-on figure to show the refinements (if any) since that process was first used. Not that the campaign needs a ton of oomph at this point, but as RiTides has shown the quality of the process is in doubt. Sure, people are obviously willing to take Adam at his word that it's better, but wouldn't it be nice to SHOW rather than SAY? Not saying he HAS to do it, just that there are a number of reasons that he could choose to do so.

There are already four models previously available in the KickStarter (albeit "limited edition" previously), and "pin-up" style models do make good filler as illustrated by the two and likely third already in. I'm sure we'll find out in due time what it is, but my guess is that "old favorite" for certain translates to "something in the existing catalog." I just happen to know what my preference would be if that's the case.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




West Midlands (UK)

 Krinsath wrote:


Given that the Twilight Knight was one of the Experiment of Death pieces and portions of it came out poorly, it would be a good add-on figure to show the refinements (if any) since that process was first used. Not that the campaign needs a ton of oomph at this point, but as RiTides has shown the quality of the process is in doubt. Sure, people are obviously willing to take Adam at his word that it's better, but wouldn't it be nice to SHOW rather than SAY? Not saying he HAS to do it, just that there are a number of reasons that he could choose to do so.


But wasn't the reason it came out poorly, by Adam's post earlier, because the ultra-thin sculpting on many parts just wasn't done with plastic in mind (unlike at least the new sculpts for the KS).

That would make it - still - a comparatively poor choice for a plastic add-on, if the fault is at least in parts with the sculpt itself.

KingdomDeath wrote:
The Pinup Twilight Knight was the 2nd digital model I ever directed. This was... 3 years ago? I remember how much push back the artist gave me when I told him how BIG the studs on her belt had to be! He said, "man this looks awful, its SOOO BIIG".

Her Sword looked huge and it came out all-right in resin. Resin being very forgiving and able to handle very slim parts. But as you can see the PVC version is down right crappy. I've debated recasting just that part in metal to add to the experiment of death box, which you are totally right. It was an experiment. I needed to invest and gain not just a working relationship with the vendor, but also learn up front and personally as much as possible in regards to the process.

So really the issue here is NOT the material, it was not understanding the limits of the material. The Pinup Twilight Knight was not designed for PVC. The New armor kits I am presenting, have been.

   
Made in us
Major




In a van down by the river

 Zweischneid wrote:

But wasn't the reason it came out poorly, by Adam's post earlier, because the ultra-thin sculpting on many parts just wasn't done with plastic in mind (unlike at least the new sculpts for the KS).

That would make it - still - a comparatively poor choice for a plastic add-on, if the fault is at least in parts with the sculpt itself.


Because models, especially digital sculpts, cannot be redesigned or edited ever. Especially not models that have already had it done to them once. They didn't understand the medium is what he says, and he goes on to state that he wanted to improve it back then. Given that the body came out quite well and it's really two components that need tweaking, it's far from impossible for them to adjust it now that they know what works and doesn't. Would it be exactly the same model then? No, but that's the price you pay going to plastic to pick up "gaming table durability".

For all we know though, "an old favorite" could be the Preacher, who has a very characterful pose, or the Forsaker, who both look pretty impressive. I just noticed the Twilight Knight pin-up accounts for the largest portion of the fan-painted miniatures gallery, is one of the oldest in the catalog, and would be a good "we've learned and moved on" demo that might not cost as much as other sculpts to re-introduce as some of the work was previously done for the Experiment of Death.

We'll find out in about a week when the KS gets there I suppose.
   
Made in us
Mutating Changebringer





Pennsylvania

 Cyporiean wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:
Seriously?

CMON has really dropped the ball on updates for RELIC KNIGHTS and SEDITION WARS - but you know when the updates stopped?

AFTER the Kickstarter closed!

I'd love to have a functioning crystal ball and all that, but, you know...


So..

Responds to Feedback, Posts Updates often:
-Mantic
-Kingdom Death
-Dreamforge
-On The Lamb
-JunkRobot
-Imbrian Arts
-Gangfight Games
-Impact!

Lacks in Communication, doesn't update:
-CoolMini


Yes, I see the Rarity.


In fairness to Alph's original point, you both have points (so one wonders how much snark is appropriate in such a situation); C'MoN has noticeably dropped the ball (and in fairness Wyrd isn't exactly covering itself in glory in this regard either), which seems not to be in dispute. So while one may list a number of other companies that have excelled at communications (I would unhesitatingly proffer that JunkRobot had more responses to backers' comments in their most recent effort then C'Mon had in all 3 of their mega-efforts*), is it therefore fair to qualify kickstarters as a whole as good on communication?

That would seem analogous to making a claim about retail stores, then listing, say
Bob's Hardware
Harry's House of Hanbock
Ma's Corner Store
SimSim Salabim's Salamis...

In support of the general state of retails stores, then, saying the only exceptions are
WalMart
Target

While the individual corporate entities lined up on the plus side may be more numerous, it would not seem to hold that the average experience of a random person would reflect that calculus. That is to say, if there are 10 stores, but 1 of them accounts for 70% of the business, it seems inappropriate to characterize the field as if all were equals.

Personally, I think it's too early yet in the lifespan of kickstarter to make sweeping generalizations, especially as we are only now entering the first periods of fulfillment from any of these companies. Will companies in the future be able to follow the C'MoN model, or will they be obliged to hew more closely to the (excellent) customer centered approach Adam Poots and other small concerns have embraced?

I think it's far too early to say.

*Interestingly, while I haven't attempted to compile the distribution of comments, this is almost certainly true: C'MoN, with 3 monster campaigns under their wing, with total cumulative backers of 12,995, has only 450 comments, while Junkrobot, (who have only 198 backers over 2 projects) has 534! Of further interest, C'MoN's last comments were November 11th.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Krinsath wrote:
...

For all we know though, "an old favorite" could be the Preacher, who has a very characterful pose, or the Forsaker, who both look pretty impressive. I just noticed the Twilight Knight pin-up accounts for the largest portion of the fan-painted miniatures gallery, is one of the oldest in the catalog, and would be a good "we've learned and moved on" demo that might not cost as much as other sculpts to re-introduce as some of the work was previously done for the Experiment of Death.

We'll find out in about a week when the KS gets there I suppose.


I hope against hope that it's the original Forsaker...


I have desired that figure from afar for far too long...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/02 19:46:50


   
Made in nl
Been Around the Block




Doubt it will be the old forsaker. I think with the release of the new model there was a short blurp of text that explained that the old model had turned out a lot of problems with the casting process.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence

To be fair, comparing KD with C'MON isn't fair yet.

C'MON was pretty darned good with comms up until the project(s) ended. KD has not yet had a chance to prove himself for the 'after the project pays' comms. And since he has a LONG time between project end and estimated delivery it will be interesting to see how he steps up.

Jake

Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. 
   
Made in us
Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot





Dallas, TX, USA

The Forsaker just screams 'use me as your WHFB Chaos Lord!"

Dark Angels (Black Armor Themed)
WarmaHordes - Protectorate / Skorne - ~100pts of each
Dark Angels P&M Blog
WarmaHordes P&M Blog

Playing only painted since 2012

 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
.







CptJake wrote:
To be fair, comparing KD with C'MON isn't fair yet.

C'MON was pretty darned good with comms up until the project(s) ended. KD has not yet had a chance to prove himself for the 'after the project pays' comms. And since he has a LONG time between project end and estimated delivery it will be interesting to see how he steps up.

Jake


Ironically enough... no one was.

Please guys - on topic here.

Thanks!
   
Made in us
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?





Fort Worth, TX

On the positive side, maybe enough money will be made off this project and sales of the game to reproduce some of the sold out models.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/02 22:10:10


"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me."
- Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence

 Alpharius wrote:
CptJake wrote:
To be fair, comparing KD with C'MON isn't fair yet.

C'MON was pretty darned good with comms up until the project(s) ended. KD has not yet had a chance to prove himself for the 'after the project pays' comms. And since he has a LONG time between project end and estimated delivery it will be interesting to see how he steps up.

Jake


Ironically enough... no one was.


Thanks!


Really? Then all the posts which led to ones like this:


Responds to Feedback, Posts Updates often:
-Mantic
-Kingdom Death
-Dreamforge
-On The Lamb
-JunkRobot
-Imbrian Arts
-Gangfight Games
-Impact!

Lacks in Communication, doesn't update:
-CoolMini


Must not have happened.... Sorry, I was pretty sure I read all those posts in this topic. Oh wait. I did.

Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. 
   
Made in ca
Renegade Inquisitor with a Bound Daemon





Tied and gagged in the back of your car

 Buzzsaw wrote:

 Krinsath wrote:
...

For all we know though, "an old favorite" could be the Preacher, who has a very characterful pose, or the Forsaker, who both look pretty impressive. I just noticed the Twilight Knight pin-up accounts for the largest portion of the fan-painted miniatures gallery, is one of the oldest in the catalog, and would be a good "we've learned and moved on" demo that might not cost as much as other sculpts to re-introduce as some of the work was previously done for the Experiment of Death.

We'll find out in about a week when the KS gets there I suppose.


I hope against hope that it's the original Forsaker...


I have desired that figure from afar for far too long...


It will never be the original Forsaker. The model was plagued with production issues, and dropped specifically because of that. The remake (which is a much better sculpt, in my opinion) would be much more realistic.

On another note, I've ordered the remade Forsaker from CMON, and after more than a month, I still have yet to receive it, so assuming CMON fethed up, I'd be more than happy to get the Forsaker through this kickstarter :/

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/02 22:13:34


 
   
 
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