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Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

Another aspect is what happens after a police shooting. Here in the UK, after the police shoot a suspect, they immediately secure the wounded suspect and begin first aid. For an example of this you can look at the footage of the two men who killed Lee Rigby getting shot after charging the firearms officers. Within seconds of them going down the police have them secured and are giving them first aid treatment until the ambulance arrives. After the suspect is no longer a threat, the aim immediately switches to keeping them alive if possible.

In the footage of many police shootings in the US, that first aid treatment after a shooting doesn't happen. The officers cuff the suspect and then they are left to bleed to death.

That kind of behaviour after the act, where no effort is made by the officers to save the life of the suspect, leaves a very different impression than if they administered first aid.

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On moon miranda.

The culture of police in the US needs to change, there is far too much emphasis on combatives and a "warrior" ethos in many instances (and I say that as someone who owns two dozen firearms and spends 2-3 nights a week fencing). Any time I see a "thin blue line" bumper sticker or those blue Punisher skulls, I immediately realize these people have missed the point of what police are for.

However, more than that, police in the US are a widely disparate group with no centralized administrative or command structure, they're all local level organizations and subject to what competencies, infrastructure, and budgets are available, and are extremely susceptible to "big fish small pond" issues. One department may be well funded with adequate staff and good training and sane leadership, but the next county over can be woefully underfunded and with half the people they need and an incompetent sheriff resulting in a department that commits all sorts of injustices, and the only way that gets fixed is when enough high profile issues occur for the Feds to come in and clean house. This makes comprehensively reforming police extremely difficult as they're all their own little agencies beholden to their own interests and constrained by local resources.

The fact that officers fired for cause (or that resigned just beforeso) are routinely immediately rehired by another agency is another major issue.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/12 18:09:56


IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

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Sometimes I think people watch too many SWAT tv documentaries. Sit in on a normal muster in an average department and you won't see a hint of "combatives" or "warrior ethos"

   
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Master Engineer with a Brace of Pistols






 Vaktathi wrote:
The culture of police in the US needs to change, there is far too much emphasis on combatives and a "warrior" ethos in many instances (and I say that as someone who owns two dozen firearms and spends 2-3 nights a week fencing). Any time I see a "thin blue line" bumper sticker or those blue Punisher skulls, I immediately realize these people have missed the point of what police are for.

However, more than that, police in the US are a widely disparate group with no centralized administrative or command structure, they're all local level organizations and subject to what competencies, infrastructure, and budgets are available, and are extremely susceptible to "big fish small pond" issues. One department may be well funded with adequate staff and good training and sane leadership, but the next county over can be woefully underfunded and with half the people they need and an incompetent sheriff resulting in a department that commits all sorts of injustices, and the only way that gets fixed is when enough high profile issues occur for the Feds to come in and clean house. This makes comprehensively reforming police extremely difficult as they're all their own little agencies beholden to their own interests and constrained by local resources.

The fact that officers fired for cause (or that resigned just beforeso) are routinely immediately rehired by another agency is another major issue.


It’s not my place to say, but I feel like organisations like the police (and fire and ambulances) shouldn’t be broken down at the county/city level but at the state level. Might help encourage better training (and funding).

   
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On moon miranda.

 Elbows wrote:
Sometimes I think people watch too many SWAT tv documentaries. Sit in on a normal muster in an average department and you won't see a hint of "combatives" or "warrior ethos"

I'm sure in many departments that's true. However, some need reminders.

The impression of such mindsets, at least on my end, is from what I see personally at the range, on the road, from news events, and my own personal interactions with officers (including my most recent Jury duty). Hell, the place that sells first responder/duty gear a couple blocks from me has all the outside windows plastered entirely from end to end with just pictures of dudes all carrying firearms in low-ready or aiming positions and preparing to enagage...something, despite that it sells no firearms and half the floorspace is EMT stuff

 Future War Cultist wrote:


It’s not my place to say, but I feel like organisations like the police (and fire and ambulances) shouldn’t be broken down at the county/city level but at the state level. Might help encourage better training (and funding).

It's an odd system for sure. In theory it means police are drawn from and are supported by their local communities, but it also makes oversight, coordination, funding, etc extremely difficult and variable, with lots of weird layers. Sitting here at work, in theory I'm served by the Oregon State Police, the Multnomah County Sheriff, the Portland Police Department, and the Port of Portland Police, all independent agencies, and thats not getting into Federal agencies operating in the area.


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 Vaktathi wrote:
Sitting here at work, in theory I'm served by the Oregon State Police, the Multnomah County Sheriff, the Portland Police Department, and the Port of Portland Police, all independent agencies, and thats not getting into Federal agencies operating in the area.


So in theory you could be bogged down in a nightmare of bureaucracy with just the four local organisations, not to mention what happens if the ATF, DEA, FBI (or whatever letter agency) want to have a word with you about something? Not that a small country automatically means less paperwork, ofc, but in general there's only one land-based police force I can get in trouble with - the ordinary blue police that cover my area and the cities around it. If I was more into boating there's a few police trained to do stuff at sea but they're severely outnumbered by our "Sea Guard" which are a combo of police, customs agent and border watch with a couple EMTs thrown in.

Whatever action is taken the department can't investigate themself, however - if a blue-shirted cop shoots at someone (or uses gas, tells a trained police dog to attack etc) his chief can't just stamp it and say it's OK. The case is usually handled by a neighboring department in order to make sure no one gets favorable treatment for being the chief's pet or something.
   
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Addressing his questionable fitness for duty, there has been a huge push in recent years to hire Somali officers in most law enforcement agencies around the twin cities. With a large and growing immigrant community that doesn't share a culture or language with the majority of Minnesotans, they want officers who can interact with and understand that community. Could that lead to some fudging to fill in the ranks? Perhaps.
   
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 Vaktathi wrote:

However, more than that, police in the US are a widely disparate group with no centralized administrative or command structure, they're all local level organizations and subject to what competencies, infrastructure, and budgets are available, and are extremely susceptible to "big fish small pond" issues. One department may be well funded with adequate staff and good training and sane leadership, but the next county over can be woefully underfunded and with half the people they need and an incompetent sheriff resulting in a department that commits all sorts of injustices, and the only way that gets fixed is when enough high profile issues occur for the Feds to come in and clean house. This makes comprehensively reforming police extremely difficult as they're all their own little agencies beholden to their own interests and constrained by local resources.

I didn't know that. Thanks for explaining it. I would guess that that is the main cause for US law enforcement being so woefully incompetent compared to law enforcement in other developed countries. It is difficult to ensure that you have a well-trained and properly funded police force if there is no central control or funding. I guess this also means that that the recruitment standard of different departments varies as well, which explains why some of the questionable characters involved in past shootings were able to join the police. This makes a lot clear.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I’m not sure if unarmed police could work in the US. Wouldn’t they be sitting ducks? Keep the guns, but just recruit and train better.

The Police Service Of Northern Ireland all carry guns (the only territorial police force in the UK who do so) and they do all right. Vetting and training is stringent and rigorous. Even putting your hand on the grip of your gun while it’s in its holster requires a bloody good reason. Training emphasises deescalation, not in your face ‘respect mah authorita!’ bs.

I’ll try to find a link, but there was an incident once where dissident republicans (IRA wannabes basically) phoned in a fake 999 call in an isolated rural area at night to lure the patrol into an ambush. Despite coming under fire in the dark, they held their nerve and didn’t return fire, but instead called for backup. I think they then managed to swamp the area and force them to surrender. I don’t see why any police in a rich democratic country can’t be trained to this level of restraint.

Yeah, there is no need for police to be unarmed. Police in the Netherlands, Germany, Russia or pretty much every developed country carry guns all the time as well, and yet shootings of unarmed people in all those countries are extremely rare, and even killing armed criminals is relatively uncommon. Police forces here just show much more restraint, even when the bullets start flying. Even when criminals open fire on police, the focus is usually still on deescalation and bringing about an outcome where the criminals can be arrested alive, rather than the focus on neutralising any threats and taking down the "tango" that US police forces seem to have from my observation.

So basically, if police violence is to end, there needs to be a culture change, and I unfortunately do not see that happen in the current highly divisive climate of the US, for reasons which can no longer be discussed on Dakka.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/09/13 20:03:53


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 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Another aspect is what happens after a police shooting. Here in the UK, after the police shoot a suspect, they immediately secure the wounded suspect and begin first aid. For an example of this you can look at the footage of the two men who killed Lee Rigby getting shot after charging the firearms officers. Within seconds of them going down the police have them secured and are giving them first aid treatment until the ambulance arrives. After the suspect is no longer a threat, the aim immediately switches to keeping them alive if possible.

In the footage of many police shootings in the US, that first aid treatment after a shooting doesn't happen. The officers cuff the suspect and then they are left to bleed to death.

That kind of behaviour after the act, where no effort is made by the officers to save the life of the suspect, leaves a very different impression than if they administered first aid.

That's great if your officers are trained to treat gunshot wounds. Are they?

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Somewhere in south-central England.

Yes.

It's not hard to train people.

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 Kilkrazy wrote:
Yes.

It's not hard to train people.

To set up IV's? Stop bleeding without causing more damage to the person? That is what it takes to treat gunshot victims. All police in the US are required to take BLS training - basically they know CPR and how to prevent shock - they aren't going to touch a gunshot victim though. Just another way that they could be made liable for someones death. The shooting might have even been justified...then they "make a mistake" in treating the gunshot wound and they lose their job/ect/ect. Also - do you really want the guy who just shot treating your injuries? I sure don't.

If they are trained that is great. However to be trained - they would need to basically have gone through paramedic school. Learn basics of human anatomy. I really doubt they do that. Then at that point - why not just be a paramedic. It's safer and probably pays about the same.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/13 20:43:43


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
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 Xenomancers wrote:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
Yes.

It's not hard to train people.

To set up IV's? Stop bleeding without causing more damage to the person? That is what it takes to treat gunshot victims. All police in the US are required to take BLS training - basically they know CPR and how to prevent shock - they aren't going to touch a gunshot victim though. Just another way that they could be made liable for someones death. The shooting might have even been justified...then they "make a mistake" in treating the gunshot wound and they lose their job/ect/ect. Also - do you really want the guy who just shot treating your injuries? I sure don't.

If they are trained that is great. However to be trained - they would need to basically have gone through paramedic school. Learn basics of human anatomy. I really doubt they do that. Then at that point - why not just be a paramedic. It's safer and probably pays about the same.

You don't have to go through paramedic school to learn how to stabilise a gunshot wound. I learned how to do that on summer camp. If I can learn it in a a day, then so can police officers. Basically all you need to do is to apply pressure to the wound to prevent the victim from bleeding out, and then apply a tourniquet (which you can make from your belt). This is something that anyone can do, and which you can learn in a couple of hours. Apart from that, you can learn how to properly transport gunshot victims and a few things (like never give the victim water, seal off gunshot wounds to the chest with plastic and tape) that are really simple but can save lives.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/13 23:33:40


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I have to agree with Iron Captain here, it also needn't necessarily even be about stabilising the casualty, just slowing the rate of deterioration might make the difference between them lasting long enough for the fully trained paramedics to arrive and save their life or not, and at a first aid level a wound is a wound, it'd make no difference in terms of how you'd treat it whether it was a gunshot, a stabbing, an industrial accident or whatever. Also (speaking from the perspective of Britain) , so long as you follow the training you've been given you should be legally fine, AFAIK in the UK at least first aiders have such legal protection in the form of a good Samaritan clause.

I do find it very odd that a Police officer would be perfectly willing to be the direct cause of such an injury, but would be completely unwilling to provide any medical assistance to the casualty they themselves caused.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/13 23:45:43


 
   
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Leerstetten, Germany

How to survive getting shot is usually a basic part of police training, and many officers carry the basic equipment needed to treat a gunshot wounds in their cars and on their belts.

Because getting shot is an occupational hazard and they want to be able to save the live of a fellow officer. So pretending the couldn’t is stupid.
   
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[MOD]
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Somewhere in south-central England.

Exactly so.

The initial treatment for gunshot is the same as for any serious lacerating or penetrating injury. You try to control bleeding and give the casualty support against the onset of shock.

These skills are taught in the standard one day emergency first aid course.

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 Xenomancers wrote:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
Yes.

It's not hard to train people.

To set up IV's? Stop bleeding without causing more damage to the person? That is what it takes to treat gunshot victims. All police in the US are required to take BLS training - basically they know CPR and how to prevent shock - they aren't going to touch a gunshot victim though. Just another way that they could be made liable for someones death. The shooting might have even been justified...then they "make a mistake" in treating the gunshot wound and they lose their job/ect/ect. Also - do you really want the guy who just shot treating your injuries? I sure don't.

If they are trained that is great. However to be trained - they would need to basically have gone through paramedic school. Learn basics of human anatomy. I really doubt they do that. Then at that point - why not just be a paramedic. It's safer and probably pays about the same.


Why does an Officer need to know how to place an IV? Are they carrying all the equipment as well as the IV bags? Why are we worried about fluids when we should be worried about applying pressure to the wound and stopping bleeding? Do you know what you are talking about?
   
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Bristol

 Dreadwinter wrote:

Why does an Officer need to know how to place an IV? Are they carrying all the equipment as well as the IV bags? Why are we worried about fluids when we should be worried about applying pressure to the wound and stopping bleeding? Do you know what you are talking about?


Apparently not. Considering he was also saying that police wouldn't do it for fear of being sued or fired when the reason they'd be doing this is because they just shot someone. At that point I can't help but think that there is some other action which they have committed that they are likely to be sued or fired over, before we also remember that laws prevent individual police officers from being sued.

And, again, British firearms officers give first aid treatment to wounded suspects. That is why the two men who killed a soldier both survived to stand trial after being shot by the police.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Iron_Captain wrote:

You don't have to go through paramedic school to learn how to stabilise a gunshot wound. I learned how to do that on summer camp. If I can learn it in a a day, then so can police officers. Basically all you need to do is to apply pressure to the wound to prevent the victim from bleeding out, and then apply a tourniquet (which you can make from your belt). This is something that anyone can do, and which you can learn in a couple of hours. Apart from that, you can learn how to properly transport gunshot victims and a few things (like never give the victim water, seal off gunshot wounds to the chest with plastic and tape) that are really simple but can save lives.


I don't believe that tourniquets are widely recommended for first aid any more, due to the potential for nerve damage if they are inappropriately applied (the pressure needs to be periodically released to prevent nerve damage). There are of course outliers (I believe military combat fatigues are designed with tourniquets built in which allow for a tourniquet to be quickly applied during combat) but for most people applying pressure to the wound site is the recommended first aid treatment. Also, tourniquets don't work for neck, head or torso wounds (which, considering the police are aiming for centre mass, will be the majority of police gunshot wounds).

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/09/14 11:50:03


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Shadeglass Maze

While I agree with the premise of police providing first aid after a shooting, didn't that occur here? The article says the police officers administered CPR, are folks saying they should've instead been dressing the wound?

Just trying to clarify, as I lost the thread.

Also, this police officer really, really needs to go to jail for such a reckless act, and I think/hope he will...
   
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UK

 A Town Called Malus wrote:


I don't believe that tourniquets are widely recommended for first aid any more, due to the potential for nerve damage if they are inappropriately applied (the pressure needs to be periodically released to prevent nerve damage). There are of course outliers (I believe military combat fatigues are designed with tourniquets built in which allow for a tourniquet to be quickly applied during combat) but for most people applying pressure to the wound site is the recommended first aid treatment. Also, tourniquets don't work for neck, head or torso wounds (which, considering the police are aiming for centre mass, will be the majority of police gunshot wounds).


From the First Aid training day I had the greater risk with tourniquets isn't nerve damage but not turning the pressure up tight enough. Ergo a person keeps turning until they see the blood flow easing off, but they've only shut down the outer veins not the inner ones, which can continue bleeding, which means its not doing any good at all (and might even speed up any problems because you've shut down one part of the flow but not the other so there is little return flow).
It's made worse by the fact that they REALLY hurt when done right so if the person is still awake its going to add to their pain in a very serious and noticeable way; which can further cause people to ease off on the pressure they apply.

The timing aspect is important, but the risk is less - nerve damage is bad, but bleeding out is fatal. Plus doctors will often shut off blood for considerable lengths of time when performing operations so the dangers are less so long as medics arrive on scene in good time. This means that the other important thing as well as pressure is time - some tourniquet kits have a slot to write the time on them otherwise the advise is to write it clearly on the person themselves (on the body not the clothing). If medics know the time it was applied and its applied well then it should help far more so than leaving the person without it whereby they can bleed out.


In first aid training tourniquets are basically in a slot whereby they are now (in the English system) advised to be taught in lines of work where you are likely to need them. So your average office first aid course won't cover them, but agriculture, conservation, building, etc... lines of work will cover them.

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Fort Campbell

 A Town Called Malus wrote:


I don't believe that tourniquets are widely recommended for first aid any more, due to the potential for nerve damage if they are inappropriately applied (the pressure needs to be periodically released to prevent nerve damage). There are of course outliers (I believe military combat fatigues are designed with tourniquets built in which allow for a tourniquet to be quickly applied during combat) but for most people applying pressure to the wound site is the recommended first aid treatment. Also, tourniquets don't work for neck, head or torso wounds (which, considering the police are aiming for centre mass, will be the majority of police gunshot wounds).


The stigma over tourniquets is kind of a thing in the past. Trauma surgeons have gotten to the point that they're capable of preventing significant damage within hours of a tourniquet being applied now. For us in the military, they are literally our first line of first aid. If you are significantly wounded in an extremity, you apply the tourniquet. End of story. Now torso, head, and neck, yes, direct pressure is the only real way to go, as tourniquets just aren't feasible options there.

As for the US military, no, our uniforms do not have built in tourniquets. We all carry at least one though, in a deployed environment.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/09/14 13:13:57


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Oxfordshire

Sound like your training may be different from our training - although that could also just be a different use of language. For us, tourniquets are last ditch, life or death, arterial bleeds only. Once they go on they stay on until a medic does something about it. The rules used to be you released the pressure every (I think) ten minutes, to prevent nerve damage and cell death. But that introduces the risk of septicemia and you've just removed a perfectly good seal which you've got to try and reapply. So end up you killing the person anyway. Once it goes on, it stays on. That's why tourniquets are a no-go unless you're prepared to say that the loss of a limb was the least worse outcome in the situation.

But tourniquet and IV are a far stretch from immediate actions following a gunshot wound. It isn't paramedic training level at all, and anybody who thinks it is should probably clue themselves up a bit first (not aimed at you djones).
   
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Fort Campbell

 Henry wrote:
Sound like your training may be different from our training - although that could also just be a different use of language. For us, tourniquets are last ditch, life or death, arterial bleeds only. Once they go on they stay on until a medic does something about it. The rules used to be you released the pressure every (I think) ten minutes, to prevent nerve damage and cell death. But that introduces the risk of septicemia and you've just removed a perfectly good seal which you've got to try and reapply. So end up you killing the person anyway. Once it goes on, it stays on. That's why tourniquets are a no-go unless you're prepared to say that the loss of a limb was the least worse outcome in the situation.

But tourniquet and IV are a far stretch from immediate actions following a gunshot wound. It isn't paramedic training level at all, and anybody who thinks it is should probably clue themselves up a bit first (not aimed at you djones).


We tend to operate under a "Golden Hour" rule when it comes to combat injuries. Our guys who are injured to the point of requiring surgery, will be to a surgical facility in no more then one hour. Could have a lot to do with our training focus on using tourniquets.

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 Vaktathi wrote:
It's an odd system for sure. In theory it means police are drawn from and are supported by their local communities, but it also makes oversight, coordination, funding, etc extremely difficult and variable, with lots of weird layers. Sitting here at work, in theory I'm served by the Oregon State Police, the Multnomah County Sheriff, the Portland Police Department, and the Port of Portland Police, all independent agencies, and thats not getting into Federal agencies operating in the area.



In the UK, police forces are divided up into various regions (Scotland used to have a dozen of them or so, but they've all been merged recently into Police Scotland. Since Strathclyde Police used to be the biggest regional service by far, that basically means that their way of doing things is now everyone's way of doing things - a little bit of a shock to some of the more rural services), but my understanding is that police officers are allowed to make arrests and otherwise exercise the powers of their role anywhere in the country - the Sweeney could still nick you in Lands End or Berwick. I think some of the smaller forces "subcontract" things like expensive forensics or complicated murder investigations to the larger forces, and when there's a big event (a protest march, or an unpopular foreign visit) in London, they'll rope in coppers from all over the country.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/14 14:36:22


 
   
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This is complicated slightly by the non-Geographic Police services, in addition to the local County Constabulary there are (Or were, I haven't checked in a while and can't really be bothered to do so now) the MoD Police, the Civil Nuclear Constabulary, the British Transport Police, IIRC the Airports have their own dedicated Police and their may be other little oddities for example the Dover Port Authority does or did have their own albeit tiny Police service independent of Kent Police. But as AndrewGPaul said, we generally don't have issues with County lines or jurisdiction and during the riots of a few years ago Police from all over the country were drafted in to the trouble spots to help the overwhelmed local forces, for example as Strathclyde have already been mentioned there were more than a few from there helping restore order in London.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/14 15:33:28


 
   
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UK

Surely even with divisional lines the US polices forces still draft in from other groups when there's a major event? Although it sounds like the more localised level of recruitment and training might cause issues with how different police teams work and coordinate together?


Also I believe some of the independent police forces - like Transport Police etc... are not "full police" and are closer to a private security firm/group yet have the title of police.

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To take the example of the BTP, that they have a different role - policing the railways - may mean that they lack some of the more specialist investigatory units that the local geographically based Police might have (For example, they probably don't have a dedicated fraud squad or cyber-crime unit), but I don't think it's fair or accurate to describe them as effectively a security firm with the title of Police. They have the same powers as other Police and in the case of the BTP, MoD Police and the Civil Nuclear Constabulary are/were fully or partially armed too, they might hand you over to your local authority for investigation and processing if appropriate but you'll certainly be in no less trouble if arrested by the BTP than your local Police.
   
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No, they do their own investigation and processing. BTP have their own custody suits so can process their own suspects. The just have their own limited areas of authority. Although in the case of CNC crossing them is generally going to end up being shot. They are all armed and generally don’t interact with the public much, unless said public are doing something very stupid. BTP on the other hand interact with the public more than most police forces.

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 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Another aspect is what happens after a police shooting. Here in the UK, after the police shoot a suspect, they immediately secure the wounded suspect and begin first aid. For an example of this you can look at the footage of the two men who killed Lee Rigby getting shot after charging the firearms officers. Within seconds of them going down the police have them secured and are giving them first aid treatment until the ambulance arrives. After the suspect is no longer a threat, the aim immediately switches to keeping them alive if possible.

In the footage of many police shootings in the US, that first aid treatment after a shooting doesn't happen. The officers cuff the suspect and then they are left to bleed to death.

That kind of behaviour after the act, where no effort is made by the officers to save the life of the suspect, leaves a very different impression than if they administered first aid.


I pointed this out when Eric Garner died during an altercation with the NYPD.

Steelmage wrote:

A lot of things seem odd in this situation.

1. The suspect is wrestled to the ground. OK. Fine so far. Discussion of the use of a possibly unauthorized technique aside.

2. The suspect exclaims that he cannot breathe. OK. Still fine. As long as he has enough air to express coherent words, he is OK.

3. Suspect stops talking. This is not good. I would have expected to see an immediate reaction from the police officers.

4. The suspect becomes unresponsive. This is very bad. Why isn't any of the officers checking his breathing, pulse and other vitals?

5. No attempt at CPR. This is beyond bad. Why aren't the police officers (who have at least basic first aid training) trying to save this man?

6. EMTs arrive. Suspect doesn't respond to verbal cues. Suspect doesn't respond to physical stimulus. Suspect does not give a clear indication of having a pulse......and the EMT does nothing? Cuffs aren't removed, pupillary response is not checked. AED isn't applied. No attempt at resuscitation.

What the hell??

-------------------------------------------------------
"He died because he had no honor. He had no honor and the Emperor was watching."

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Made in us
[DCM]
Savage Minotaur




Baltimore, Maryland

Pardon the necro, but new development for those that were interested in this case and took part in this discussion.

The last time I’ll necro this thread, I promise! Lock it up if the necro is a gross violation or if this topic falls under the politics ban, I suppose.

Tldr: Guilty, potential* for 20 years behind bars, sentencing next month.

Former Minneapolis police officer Mohamed Noor has been found guilty of third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter in the fatal shooting of Justine Ruszczyk Damond.

He was acquitted of second-degree murder. Noor was immediately handcuffed and taken into custody. Sentencing is scheduled for 9 a.m. June 7.

He faces between 10- and 15 years in prison for the third-degree murder charge and 3 1/2 to nearly 5 years for the manslaughter charge.

A jury of two women and 10 men began deliberations Monday after hearing three weeks of testimony and announced the verdict Tuesday afternoon after about 11 hours of deliberation.

Noor, 33, was charged with second-degree murder, third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter for the July 15, 2017 killing of Damond.

Noor and his partner, Matthew Harrity, were responding to Damond’s 911 call about a possible sexual assault in the alley behind her south Minneapolis home. Noor and Harrity both testified that a loud sound on their squad startled them, and that Noor fired from the passenger seat through Harrity’s open driver’s side window about 11:40 p.m.

Mohamed Noor and his attorneys headed to the courtroom on Tuesday to hear the verdict in the case against the former Minneapolis police officer. More Noor testified that upon hearing the sound, Harrity yelled out in fear, struggled to unholster his gun and looked at him with fear in his eyes. Noor told the court that the startling sound, his typically calm partner’s reaction and a figure raising a right arm at Harrity’s window caused him to fear that they were being ambushed.

Prosecutors argued that Noor acted unreasonably when he fired, and was too quick to assume that Damond was a threat. Noor and Harrity should have considered whether Damond was the 911 caller, the subject of Damond’s 911 call or a woman from a previous 911 call placed earlier in the night by a neighbor, prosecutors have said.

Prosecutors leveraged Harrity’s reaction against Noor. While Harrity testified that he was spooked by the noise and the sight of a silhouette at his window, he also acknowledged that he had been unable to see Damond’s hands and that it was premature to use deadly force based on the information he had at the time.

Noor is the second officer in recent Minnesota history to be charged with an on-duty killing. St. Anthony police officer Jeronimo Yanez was acquitted in 2017 for fatally shooting Philando Castile during a 2016 traffic stop.


*Potentially 20 years if they max out on all the charges, which is doubtful. My semi-educated guess, he’ll end up serving the better part of a decade behind bars.

Tragic case, but finally some element of closure. From what I read, this dude never should’ve been a cop, or kept in an administrative role at most. I hope the family wins(may already have won, can’t remember) big in the civil suit against the city.




"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

As expected, the usual police go-to, the venerable "I was scared" defense; does not extend to black cops who shoot blonde white women.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
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