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http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/17/us/minneapolis-woman-killed-by-police/index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/18/us/minneapolis-woman-shooting-what-we-know/index.html

Ruszczyk called 911 on Saturday night to report a possible sexual assault in an alley near her home, her fiancé, Damond, said in a news conference Monday.
Two police officers responded to the scene just before 11:30 p.m., according to the BCA. One of them fired a weapon, killing Ruszczyk. She died of a gunshot wound to the abdomen, an autopsy revealed.

This next quote is from the Daily Mail.

The Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension (BCA) - the state agency investigating the shooting - has so far kept tight-lipped on the circumstances that led to the death of the yoga and meditation teacher.

They have admitted that no weapons were recovered from the scene and according to the Star Tribune witnesses to the shooting have described Damond approaching the police cruiser in the alley behind her house.

She was holding her cell phone and talking to an officer on the drivers side before she was shot.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4703892/Police-officer-shot-Justine-Damond-identified.html

Points of Interest
1. Victim had called the police.
2. Victim is an Australian citizen. Potential international legal issue now.
3. Victim was an unarmed white female.

Police officer was a one year rookie Somali refugee. The trainer only had two years experience. Cameras were off. Supposedly shooter - from passenger seat shot THROUGH driver side window multiple times.
Victim had cell phone at her side.

"Police in Minneapolis are required to wear bodycams at all time, but they are not continually active and are manually switched on when an officer anticipates they will be needed."

Totally pointless then.

Also interesting is that the dashcam wasn't working.

The whole thing stinks.

Testing the waters, does Dakka hate the boys in blue as much as the boys in blue (power armor)?

But once again our 'trained' and 'elite' force of murde... I mean, protectors, sorry Big Brother and Mark succerburg, gun down someone and of course the body and dash weren't working

 Battle Brother Lucifer wrote:
Testing the waters, does Dakka hate the boys in blue as much as the boys in blue (power armor)?

That's entirely on the individuals involved, nothing intrinsic to this forum. You'll find similar behavior anywhere a large enough group of people are talking about...anything.

 Alpharius wrote:

 Battle Brother Lucifer wrote:
Testing the waters, does Dakka hate the boys in blue as much as the boys in blue (power armor)?

That's entirely on the individuals involved, nothing intrinsic to this forum. You'll find similar behavior anywhere a large enough group of people are talking about...anything.

oh contraire! My Zincwarriors have vowed that the Ultras are going down!

Smurf 1: "whats that marine charging us?"
Smurf 2:"I don't know but he looks awfully angry. Maybe we should give him some information on anger management courses. I have a brochure."
Smurf 1: "wait he's saying something. What is 'Zinc within Zinc without'?"
Smurf 2: "Thats...strange. and what is that with him?"
Smurf 1: " By the Primarch's pointy booties is that a pack of wiener dogs?"
Smurf 2: "It is. They look awfully bitey."
Smurf 1: "I'm scared. hold me."
Smurf 2: "Back off.Hey do I look like a Dark Angel to you?"
Smurf 1: "oh they're so cutTHEFACENOTMYBEAUTIFULFACE!"
Death to the False EMprah and his Feline evilz!

 jmurph wrote:
Also interesting is that the dashcam wasn't working.

The whole thing stinks.

This does stink. Stinks bad. I am curious if the "cop was scared for his life" defense will work here.

Regardless, this seems like a no-win situation even if the "right' outcome is achieved. If the cops are prosecuted and convicted (which I'd be shocked) it will still lend credence to the idea that police violence is only held accountable when the victim is white (and female).

And if the cops walk, well, it just shows how fethed our system is and further illustrates that the police are a legally sanctioned murder gang.

 Battle Brother Lucifer wrote:
Testing the waters, does Dakka hate the boys in blue as much as the boys in blue (power armor)?

But once again our 'trained' and 'elite' force of murde... I mean, protectors, sorry Big Brother and Mark succerburg, gun down someone and of course the body and dash weren't working

British police are fine, if a bit too obsessed with speeding drivers. If I were ever to visit the US I'd be gak scared of being shot by them. Probably not black enough to really need to worry, but still.

Crispy78 wrote:
British police are fine, if a bit too obsessed with speeding drivers. If I were ever to visit the US I'd be gak scared of being shot by them. Probably not black enough to really need to worry, but still.

Classy. Dragging a thread down to a race discussion about the US Police being anti-African American when discussing the circumstances in which a White person was shot by police.

This case is totally bizarre. Black Male Somali refugee shot white female Australian citizen in Minnesota?

Almost as bizarre as people attributing this to american racism - neather victim or shooter is an American.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

Crispy78 wrote:
British police are fine, if a bit too obsessed with speeding drivers. If I were ever to visit the US I'd be gak scared of being shot by them. Probably not black enough to really need to worry, but still.

Classy. Dragging a thread down to a race discussion about the US Police being anti-African American when discussing the circumstances in which a White person was shot by police.

Yet the Ultramarine jokes were classy? There is no class in this thread.

Or are we pretending there isn't a race issue in the US when it comes to the criminal justice system?

 Steve steveson wrote:
"Police in Minneapolis are required to wear bodycams at all time, but they are not continually active and are manually switched on when an officer anticipates they will be needed."

Totally pointless then.

Exactly. I've never understood why personal body cameras can be turned off by the officer.

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 Steve steveson wrote:
"Police in Minneapolis are required to wear bodycams at all time, but they are not continually active and are manually switched on when an officer anticipates they will be needed."

Totally pointless then.

Exactly. I've never understood why personal body cameras can be turned off by the officer.

I guess they dont want to keep switching out SD cards as they get full? whats body cam technology like anyway

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Yet the Ultramarine jokes were classy? There is no class in this thread.

Or are we pretending there isn't a race issue in the US when it comes to the criminal justice system?

I don't recall offering an opinion on the Ultramarine jokes, nor did I make any comment about race not being an issue in the criminal justice system.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Desubot wrote:

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 Steve steveson wrote:
"Police in Minneapolis are required to wear bodycams at all time, but they are not continually active and are manually switched on when an officer anticipates they will be needed."

Totally pointless then.

Exactly. I've never understood why personal body cameras can be turned off by the officer.

I guess they dont want to keep switching out SD cards as they get full? whats body cam technology like anyway

What model was in use by the Officers, and what is the battery life on those models?

 Xenomancers wrote:
This case is totally bizarre. Black Male Somali refugee shot white female Australian citizen in Minnesota?

Almost as bizarre as people attributing this to american racism - neather victim or shooter is an American.

Oh, I like this angle. Blame the foreigners.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Yet the Ultramarine jokes were classy? There is no class in this thread.

Or are we pretending there isn't a race issue in the US when it comes to the criminal justice system?

I don't recall offering an opinion on the Ultramarine jokes, nor did I make any comment about race not being an issue in the criminal justice system.

So you just arbitrarily decided to jump down Crispy78's throat because reasons?

I mentioned race prior to him and you ignored that, and someone made a dumb Ultramarines joke and you ignored that. So, I am not sure what level of class you thought this thread was at, but Crispy78 didn't lower anything. It just seems like you are trying to stir gak.

 jmurph wrote:
Also interesting is that the dashcam wasn't working.

The whole thing stinks.

The dashcam of the cruiser was on but it didn't capture video of anything because it is fixed in place and pointing straight ahead and since the interaction between the woman and police happened alongside the driver's side door it took place off camera. It might be useful if the dashcam recorded audio but I think they record video only.

There's absolutely no reason for the officer in the passenger seat to have his gun drawn let alone have his finger on the trigger, that violates basic firearm safety to an incredulous degree for a supposedly trained professional.

Our dump trucks (and I assume our police vehicles) have cameras on the front, back and both sides. I think your squad cars are going to need the same. And I said this in another thread, but body cameras should be mandatory with instant dismissal for 'conveniently not having them switched on'. This is beyond praody now.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Yet the Ultramarine jokes were classy? There is no class in this thread.

Or are we pretending there isn't a race issue in the US when it comes to the criminal justice system?

I don't recall offering an opinion on the Ultramarine jokes, nor did I make any comment about race not being an issue in the criminal justice system.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Desubot wrote:

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 Steve steveson wrote:
"Police in Minneapolis are required to wear bodycams at all time, but they are not continually active and are manually switched on when an officer anticipates they will be needed."

Totally pointless then.

Exactly. I've never understood why personal body cameras can be turned off by the officer.

I guess they dont want to keep switching out SD cards as they get full? whats body cam technology like anyway

What model was in use by the Officers, and what is the battery life on those models?

i don't know the model they used, but body cams can run over 8 hours on a charge and record the whole time. Worst case scenario they swap mid shift. They should not be able to chose when to switch it on or off.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

Crispy78 wrote:
British police are fine, if a bit too obsessed with speeding drivers. If I were ever to visit the US I'd be gak scared of being shot by them. Probably not black enough to really need to worry, but still.

Classy. Dragging a thread down to a race discussion about the US Police being anti-African American when discussing the circumstances in which a White person was shot by police.

Yet the Ultramarine jokes were classy? There is no class in this thread.

Oh we got one of those people on the thread.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Our dump trucks (and I assume our police vehicles) have cameras on the front, back and both sides. I think your squad cars are going to need the same. And I said this in another thread, but body cameras should be mandatory with instant dismissal for 'conveniently not having them switched on'. This is beyond praody now.

Agreed.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 Steve steveson wrote:
"Police in Minneapolis are required to wear bodycams at all time, but they are not continually active and are manually switched on when an officer anticipates they will be needed."

Totally pointless then.

Exactly. I've never understood why personal body cameras can be turned off by the officer.

I guess they dont want to keep switching out SD cards as they get full? whats body cam technology like anyway

What model was in use by the Officers, and what is the battery life on those models?

Taser Axon Body 2. 12+ hour battery life, 64Gb storage (which will record 70 hours of footage).

Crispy78 wrote:

 Battle Brother Lucifer wrote:
Testing the waters, does Dakka hate the boys in blue as much as the boys in blue (power armor)?

But once again our 'trained' and 'elite' force of murde... I mean, protectors, sorry Big Brother and Mark succerburg, gun down someone and of course the body and dash weren't working

British police are fine, if a bit too obsessed with speeding drivers. If I were ever to visit the US I'd be gak scared of being shot by them. Probably not black enough to really need to worry, but still.

Im a horrible pale ghost person and Im still afraid for my life almost every time I deal with police. I went to college in Worcester and ive seen some gak

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
So you just arbitrarily decided to jump down Crispy78's throat because reasons?

I mentioned race prior to him and you ignored that, and someone made a dumb Ultramarines joke and you ignored that. So, I am not sure what level of class you thought this thread was at, but Crispy78 didn't lower anything. It just seems like you are trying to stir gak.

I note that you were happy to ignore those jokes also until you arbitrarily decided to jump down my throat because of reasons. I've read your earlier post in this thread and I think we can end our exchanges here.

 Ouze wrote:
Taser Axon Body 2. 12+ hour battery life, 64Gb storage (which will record 70 hours of footage).

Thank you. I had read elsewhere that some forces were using other models with a lesser battery life, with body camera being off when other recording devices were being used. Reading the policy of LEOs in MN not having the cameras seems against policy;
http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/police/policy/mpdpolicy_4-200_4-200
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2017/07/17/good-question-body-cameras/

I used to think body cameras were a very viable solution to the problem of police brutality, but I don't think so anymore. After all, there was no shortage of footage of cops executing a man for selling loose cigarettes.

The real problem is that culturally, juries give a crazy amount of deference to police - maybe too much. I understand that cops have to make split-second decisions and that monday morning quarterbacking seems unreasonable, but I also think ti's become readily apparent that police officers routinely skate on use of force incidents that a non-LEO with a CCW would clearly go to jail for. This needs to end at the prosecutors office and the jury box, and isn't a technological fix.

 Ouze wrote:
I used to think body cameras were a very viable solution to the problem of police brutality, but I don't think so anymore. After all, there was no shortage of footage of cops executing a man for selling loose cigarettes.

The real problem is that culturally, juries give a crazy amount of deference to police - maybe too much. I understand that cops have to make split-second decisions and that monday morning quarterbacking seems unreasonable, but I also think ti's become readily apparent that police officers routinely skate on use of force incidents that a non-LEO with a CCW would clearly go to jail for. This needs to end at the prosecutors office and the jury box, and isn't a technological fix.

I don't there is ever a simple fix to something as complex as this, especially when there is a a subjective element as to whether the LEO felt that their life was at risk. Body cameras are just another layer of accountability. But if they are not recording and a Prosecutor does not want to peruse the matter their merits are largely academic.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
I used to think body cameras were a very viable solution to the problem of police brutality, but I don't think so anymore. After all, there was no shortage of footage of cops executing a man for selling loose cigarettes.

The real problem is that culturally, juries give a crazy amount of deference to police - maybe too much. I understand that cops have to make split-second decisions and that monday morning quarterbacking seems unreasonable, but I also think ti's become readily apparent that police officers routinely skate on use of force incidents that a non-LEO with a CCW would clearly go to jail for. This needs to end at the prosecutors office and the jury box, and isn't a technological fix.

I don't there is ever a simple fix to something as complex as this, especially when there is a a subjective element as to whether the LEO felt that their life was at risk. Body cameras are just another layer of accountability. But if they are not recording and a Prosecutor does not want to peruse the matter their merits are largely academic.

There really is a series of simple fixes to this.

Stop letting police officers routinely skate on use of force incidents. There needs to be penalties for juries or jurors who come back with nonsense verdicts like we've seen recently. I don't know what the penalties should be or how they should be penalized, but there is a very real issue with this and it needs to be addressed.
Stop letting police officers be able to turn off their body cameras or dashboard cameras. The second those cameras go off, if anything happens while they're on duty? Fired and immediately put into county jail. No charges, no nothing. Just jailed for the same amount of time as a civilian would get for whatever crime that might have possibly been committed
Stop hiring persons who have no business handling t-shirt cannons, let alone actual firearms
Start weeding out officers with excessive "sketchy" situations in their files.

There's a lot more really that can be done, but that's a start.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
I used to think body cameras were a very viable solution to the problem of police brutality, but I don't think so anymore. After all, there was no shortage of footage of cops executing a man for selling loose cigarettes.

The real problem is that culturally, juries give a crazy amount of deference to police - maybe too much. I understand that cops have to make split-second decisions and that monday morning quarterbacking seems unreasonable, but I also think ti's become readily apparent that police officers routinely skate on use of force incidents that a non-LEO with a CCW would clearly go to jail for. This needs to end at the prosecutors office and the jury box, and isn't a technological fix.

I don't there is ever a simple fix to something as complex as this, especially when there is a a subjective element as to whether the LEO felt that their life was at risk. Body cameras are just another layer of accountability. But if they are not recording and a Prosecutor does not want to peruse the matter their merits are largely academic.

There really is a series of simple fixes to this.

Stop letting police officers routinely skate on use of force incidents. There needs to be penalties for juries or jurors who come back with nonsense verdicts like we've seen recently. I don't know what the penalties should be or how they should be penalized, but there is a very real issue with this and it needs to be addressed.
Stop letting police officers be able to turn off their body cameras or dashboard cameras. The second those cameras go off, if anything happens while they're on duty? Fired and immediately put into county jail. No charges, no nothing. Just jailed for the same amount of time as a civilian would get for whatever crime that might have possibly been committed
Stop hiring persons who have no business handling t-shirt cannons, let alone actual firearms
Start weeding out officers with excessive "sketchy" situations in their files.

There's a lot more really that can be done, but that's a start.

And who decides it's sketchy? You? Me? This is a very, very, very dangerous path to walk down.

You are advocating the idea of tossing out the entire basis of our justice system with an idea like that.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
So you just arbitrarily decided to jump down Crispy78's throat because reasons?

I mentioned race prior to him and you ignored that, and someone made a dumb Ultramarines joke and you ignored that. So, I am not sure what level of class you thought this thread was at, but Crispy78 didn't lower anything. It just seems like you are trying to stir gak.

I note that you were happy to ignore those jokes also until you arbitrarily decided to jump down my throat because of reasons. I've read your earlier post in this thread and I think we can end our exchanges here.

So you were looking to start a race fight, got it.

 Ouze wrote:
I used to think body cameras were a very viable solution to the problem of police brutality, but I don't think so anymore. After all, there was no shortage of footage of cops executing a man for selling loose cigarettes.

The real problem is that culturally, juries give a crazy amount of deference to police - maybe too much.

It definitely is a cultural issue. Culturally we glorify police, especially "rogue" police that "break all the rules" as seen in damn near every cop drama on television or film. We watch shows like COPS, and Wildest Police Chases, and fetishize the role of police and criminals to the point were the nuances are lost and we can only see in archetypes.

We obsess over being tough on crime, on punishment, but ignore the underlying reasons for crime and are often much too slow to address those root problems. Focusing instead on dealing with the symptoms with brutal force and crippling sentencing.

We also prioritize candidates with military training for police recruitment over civilians which seems wrong headed to me while also outfitting our police with surplus military equipment and wonder why we have the violence.

Our culture needs to abandon the "Police are heroes who can do no wrong" myth and start examining how we got to this point where a portion of the civilian population distrusts the police, and the police distrust the civilians they are paid to serve.

 Ouze wrote:
I understand that cops have to make split-second decisions and that monday morning quarterbacking seems unreasonable, but I also think ti's become readily apparent that police officers routinely skate on use of force incidents that a non-LEO with a CCW would clearly go to jail for. This needs to end at the prosecutors office and the jury box, and isn't a technological fix.

Agreed. I repeatedly hear it stated that prosecutors don't want to go after police because they also rely on police for their criminal cases, so that conflict of interest is staggering, but nothing is done about it. I agree it isn't a technological fix. We need to separate how police are prosecuted and do away with the protections they receive which regular civilians do not.

 djones520 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
I used to think body cameras were a very viable solution to the problem of police brutality, but I don't think so anymore. After all, there was no shortage of footage of cops executing a man for selling loose cigarettes.

The real problem is that culturally, juries give a crazy amount of deference to police - maybe too much. I understand that cops have to make split-second decisions and that monday morning quarterbacking seems unreasonable, but I also think ti's become readily apparent that police officers routinely skate on use of force incidents that a non-LEO with a CCW would clearly go to jail for. This needs to end at the prosecutors office and the jury box, and isn't a technological fix.

I don't there is ever a simple fix to something as complex as this, especially when there is a a subjective element as to whether the LEO felt that their life was at risk. Body cameras are just another layer of accountability. But if they are not recording and a Prosecutor does not want to peruse the matter their merits are largely academic.

There really is a series of simple fixes to this.

Stop letting police officers routinely skate on use of force incidents. There needs to be penalties for juries or jurors who come back with nonsense verdicts like we've seen recently. I don't know what the penalties should be or how they should be penalized, but there is a very real issue with this and it needs to be addressed.
Stop letting police officers be able to turn off their body cameras or dashboard cameras. The second those cameras go off, if anything happens while they're on duty? Fired and immediately put into county jail. No charges, no nothing. Just jailed for the same amount of time as a civilian would get for whatever crime that might have possibly been committed
Stop hiring persons who have no business handling t-shirt cannons, let alone actual firearms
Start weeding out officers with excessive "sketchy" situations in their files.

There's a lot more really that can be done, but that's a start.

And who decides it's sketchy? You? Me? This is a very, very, very dangerous path to walk down.

Any idiot can tell when something's sketchy. As soon as a murder happens when there's no recording devices(which are per department policy SUPPOSED TO BE ON) on...it's sketchy.
Lock 'em up.

You are advocating the idea of tossing out the entire basis of our justice system with an idea like that.

I'm advocating for police to be actually held accountable for their actions.