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Shadespire/Nightvault could also be pulling away a lot of the competitive crowd

It is true here that shadespire has pulled away a lot of the min max guys.

 Overread wrote:

 Dynas wrote:
My old WHFB army is now 3 or 4 armies. There are too many FAQ/documents needed. I found a file with all of them, i printed it off, it was 150 pages long.

Did you print off every single thing for every single army? Also it sounds like you got the designers commentaries in there which are not so much errata/corrections but true Frequently Asked Question answers.

I agree many armies did get broken up, however most of those 3 or 4 armies are still in the same alliance bracket and thus will still be able to make use of each others units under the allies system or if you ran it as a grand alliance order instead of faction army.

Which army is it?

Yes I printed off ALL of them.
I have WHFB Dwarfs - 4 factions now i believe
Empire - also 4 factions
Brets- finally got killed off, though I have been working on converting these guys into multibasing for my Kings of War Brotherhood army.

I dont want to rebase everything on rounds either. I know it says you don't have to but if you go into a tourney setting its probably going to be enforced.

The other issue is I really don't like any of the new armies either. The Fyreslayers are ok, but just over the top Slayers. Im not a big steampunk fan so that nixes the other dwarf faction. Empire has nothing. Stormcast...errr i mean space marine with a hammer don't look cool IMO. I kind of like the Deepkin army. Now 40k, which I came back into at beginning of 8th after not playing since 5th, I had a small barely 2000 pt ultramarine army and like 2500 point nid army. Since 8th started I have picked up 8500 points of Necrons, another 8k of Nids (including Biotitan) another 6k of ultramarines, and a small chunk of AM and 4 knights. Really a bummer because I like the fantasy setting a lot, but the new armies just lack the flavor of the Old World, even with the 2nd ed Lore drop (which did help a bit).

Empire/humans certainly needs some attention from GW as does the dwarves (beyond slayers and steam punk air dwarves).

Rebasing doesn't have to happen, there's some 3rd party companies making square to round conversion attachments out there

I know it says you don't have to but if you go into a tourney setting its probably going to be enforced.

This is true. At least around me. If you want to be a tourney gamer you have to be on rounds. There are ways to use converters to rounds instead of having to cut your models off of squares, but either way at tournaments you'll need to make sure not only you are on rounds but the models that went up in size from 20 to 25mm or 25mm to 32mm are on the right size rounds or someone will scream foul.

I would expect the separation from the old world aesthetic to continue to deepen. For a variety of reasons.

Even at casual level rounds and larger rounds where used are proper and fair. Small square bases can fit together far better so you could be "cheating" by getting more in close combat than normal and trying to measure "as if" they were on the right base size is an exercise in torment and madness.

In our campaigns we still do the play with what your model came with.

Our two bretonnian players are all on squares 100%. I have a unit of plague bearers still on 25mm squares. We have some undead players also on squares.

Its still fun. But casual, and everyone playing knows that in tournaments or against our tournament powergamers we could never get away with that.

auticus wrote:

Its still fun. But casual, and everyone playing knows that in tournaments or against our tournament powergamers we could never get away with that.

A bit of blutac over the appropiate round usually does the trick for everyone but the most hardcore tournament-goers.

Yeah. Its a matter of going through your collection and inventorying everything and going out and buying all the right size bases in the first place.

Especially knowing that what is legal on a base today can easily be put on a bigger base with the next GHB and you'll have to rebuy new base again because GW has no standard and just change base sizes whenever the wind changes over nottingham.

I never played WHFB, but I read a lot of the old gotrek and felix books, and even I was miffed when they blew up the old world. The new setting seems far to abstract for me.

But in terms of the game itself - I have enough trouble with the shooting phase and vulnerable characters in 40k, and from what I understand AoS is even worse in those regards.

Though, i think there is less of an emphasis on shooting, in general.

And while I'm mostly ok with the fixed to-hit in 40k, I think AoS's fixed to-wound is nutz. Wounding anything from a clanrat to a dragon on the same value seems silly.

But I do have a small ironjaws army, and some of my nerd friends seem to really enjoy it, so I aught to try it again sometime.

auticus wrote:
Yeah. Its a matter of going through your collection and inventorying everything and going out and buying all the right size bases in the first place.

Especially knowing that what is legal on a base today can easily be put on a bigger base with the next GHB and you'll have to rebuy new base again because GW has no standard and just change base sizes whenever the wind changes over nottingham.

Did I miss a controversy somewhere? Other than some units going up from 25mm to 32mm, I can't remember GW upping base sizes, and never with a GHB.

The GHB this year put an "official base size" chart in play for matched play (also known as how everyone in the world except for 1% plays)

Which means next year they can adjust it how they see fit.

Most of my chaos army went from 25mm to 32mm bases. All of my warriors, all of my demon infantry (bloodletters, plague bearers, daemonettes), all of my infantry heroes. The only ones spared were my marauders who stay on 25mm. That is a quite sizable chunk of my collection.

Additionally my entire skeleton collection (we'll call them tomb kings) went from 20mm squares to 25mm rounds.

Those are my two primary forces.

Its not going to be a stretch to say that when dark elves get looked at that they also go from 20 to 25mm. They may already be 25mm, I haven't checked the chart though.

Essentially if you have a legacy collection, you will likely have to do some rebasing from what I have seen. The new models especially went from 28mm heroic to 32mm scale and seem to very commonly up the base size from either 20 to 25, or 25 to 32.

It is not a stretch to go base my dark elves on 20mm rounds for example, and then have a release next year put them on 25s.

In general the base size increase is something GW has been rolling out to many armies in 40K and AoS. So its not isolated, it is a pain but at the same time its likely that now they've released an official document the sizes are going to stay the same for a long while as yet. I can't see them retro changing sizes at a whim continually, it would just generate too much bad publicity.

Right now they sort of give their wishy washy "base that it came with" argument, but everyone knows that most casual areas and every tournament is going to go for the official standard sizes by and large.


I see it as a one time annoyance that shouldn't be repeated if ever for most bases.

That said I do appreciate the sanity in that armies that have not been the focus of a big balance update are possibly best left alone for a bit. That said if you've got Dark Elves you can always get a few more Witche Aelves or some snakes and go for some Daughters of Khaine.

I'm in a fortunate position in that i am the event organizer for my area for AOS so I can keep the rebasing to a minimum. Of course any new models I get are on standard bases so eventually I may even have an army that is not using any of my legacy models

That's what I assumed you were referring to, but what makes you think GW is going to start changing base sizes at random with every GHB? That seems awfully cynical, even for you. The only time I've seen them change base sizes (other than this GHB which is basically updating WHFB models to AoS standards) is when the models have a redesign or occasionally when a kit is re-boxed (my Necron infantry units were upped from 25mm to 32mm recently).

Because it seems that every year bases have changed for me for one reason or another.

And when we are talking legacy armies, we are talking new releases which will cause them to put the whole range on new bases.

And when it happens it is really seemingly overnight. Like you'll see a box come out and poof the revamped models for the army you have are now on bigger bases.

auticus wrote:
Because it seems that every year bases have changed for me for one reason or another.

And when we are talking legacy armies, we are talking new releases which will cause them to put the whole range on new bases.

And when it happens it is really seemingly overnight. Like you'll see a box come out and poof the revamped models for the army you have are now on bigger bases.

Really? I don't think anything changed base sizes if they were already on rounds for BoC. Same for Legions or Nighthaunt or SCE. Now if you rebased on what you thought was a good size and guessed wrong (i.e. Gor on 25mm instead of 32's) that's not GW's fault. When they rebox they set the size. And prior to the rebox they hadn't released a size chart.

Thats cool. Those are recent examples. There are many other armies that did change and some of them were pretty sudden. Sudden enough that for me anyway I'm not going to rebase anything existing.

Thats an ok choice for me because until they bring some balance back into the game I'm not going to tournaments anyway, so that won't hurt me to not rebase.

For anything new I'll be using whatever base comes in the box.

Name a unit in AoS that has been thru the reboxing cycle or that's come out since AoS dropped that's base size has changed. To my knowledge zero round bases have been changed.

Like I said, some people might have guessed wrong when they rebased to round from squares but that's not the same thing. You saying they are changing all the time when all that's happening is they are telling you the base size to rebase from squares to. Nothing in the new base size chart (again to my knowledge) changed any existing models that had already been switched from square to rounds.

Every demon foot troop in the game was on 25mm squares or rounds in 40k and is now on 32 mm rounds.

Skeletons went from 20mm to 25mm rounds with no increase in model size. So if you rebased your 20mm squares to 20mm rounds (a lot of people did this) you were hosed.

The base chart came out "officially" three years after the game was released. There was quite a bit of base increase across the board in those three years.

I will PROMISE that there will be base adjustments made as legacy forces get pushed out with new books.

So daemons are the only ones then (does GW even make 20mm rounds?).

 EnTyme wrote:
So daemons are the only ones then (does GW even make 20mm rounds?).

No. Only squares were 20mm. The smallest rounds are 25mm.

No demons aren't the only ones.

Chaos warriors and those things like chaos warriors went from 25 to 32s.

I also have a ton of 4th edition imperial guardsmen on 20mm rounds. They are smaller than the 25s. In fact i still have old chaos terminators on the 20mm rounds and my bitz box has several dozen of the old 20mm rounds. Some have slotta tabs cut into them. Some don't.

Before the basing guide became a thing I know several people that rebased their human armies and their undead armies on the 20mm rounds and when skeletons went to 25mm some people threw a fit because they had to rebase their entire undead collection again.

auticus wrote:
The GHB this year put an "official base size" chart in play for matched play (also known as how everyone in the world except for 1% plays)

Which means next year they can adjust it how they see fit.

Most of my chaos army went from 25mm to 32mm bases. All of my warriors, all of my demon infantry (bloodletters, plague bearers, daemonettes), all of my infantry heroes. The only ones spared were my marauders who stay on 25mm. That is a quite sizable chunk of my collection.

Additionally my entire skeleton collection (we'll call them tomb kings) went from 20mm squares to 25mm rounds.

Those are my two primary forces.

Its not going to be a stretch to say that when dark elves get looked at that they also go from 20 to 25mm. They may already be 25mm, I haven't checked the chart though.

Essentially if you have a legacy collection, you will likely have to do some rebasing from what I have seen. The new models especially went from 28mm heroic to 32mm scale and seem to very commonly up the base size from either 20 to 25, or 25 to 32.

It is not a stretch to go base my dark elves on 20mm rounds for example, and then have a release next year put them on 25s.

Just letting ya know, Daemonettes are still 25s, though 32s would help keep them from falling as much.

auticus wrote:
Every demon foot troop in the game was on 25mm squares or rounds in 40k and is now on 32 mm rounds.

Skeletons went from 20mm to 25mm rounds with no increase in model size. So if you rebased your 20mm squares to 20mm rounds (a lot of people did this) you were hosed.

The base chart came out "officially" three years after the game was released. There was quite a bit of base increase across the board in those three years.

I will PROMISE that there will be base adjustments made as legacy forces get pushed out with new books.

The 3 daemons did bump in size. I didn't realize they had and that is the only thing that has increased after a repack/release since AoS dropped. Skeletons never changed size. They went on the smallest similar base that existed and made by GW. So if you based on them on 25's (closest GW base to a 20mm) then you guess right but they haven't changed since their repack. As for Chaos Warriors they were the first models rereleased with AoS and have been on the same sized base since that repack.

The list came out because they are not requiring rebasing for their competitive events. You didn't NEED to rebase until this year. You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

 Hulksmash wrote:


The list came out because they are not requiring rebasing for their competitive events. You didn't NEED to rebase until this year. You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

Lots of tournaments did. That's why I never attended any. Long drive + need to rebase was a no-no, my minis stay on their squares.

The new chaos warrior box that I bought back in the spring had them on 32s. They look ridiculously stupid next to the other ones I have that are on 25 squares, so I put them on 25 rounds instead.

Were they boxed wrong? Maybe? My original AOS starter box had everything on 25s and then the second box I saw there were 32s so that first box was boxed wrong. But I still got a box of chaos warriors they wanted me to put on 32 rounds which looked stupid.

You didn't NEED to rebase until this year. You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

You still don't NEED to rebase. Unless you are a tournament player. This was true in 2016 and 2017 as well. At least here. You had to have rounds in 2016 at competitive events in my region.

My campaigns were the only ones you didn't need to rebase on, and they took holy hell for that from a handful of the pro-circuit guys but our GW manager has let me continue with keeping the original bases on models because thats the company policy.

I dont see having to rebase my entire collection as a molehill. Its quite a bit of work. Additionally if I want to use a legacy army that are on 20mm bases you already know they'll be on the 25s and then if they pull something like the Blood Warriors on you just don't bother with your older models and buy in to the new ones to save yourself the hassle and time.

Expecting that an official ruling from big tournaments won't be enforced locally is like expecting people to be ok with house rules. Technicly possible, but a dangerous thing to do with something that can cost 700$ up.

Can anyone explain to me why some legacy armies are so unpopular in AoS? The number of dark elf or egyptian undead armies on the polish trade facebook page easily doubles or triples the number of stormcasts being sold. Also unlike with other armies, the people that sell them only do bulk, no single models or single units.

Tomb Kings are currently not even in the game any more except through legacy rules. Meanwhile Dark Elves and a lot of the Elf and human factions are very broken up into subfactions at present and need sorting out by GW in terms of giving them a long lasting future.

AoS is a bit of a mess in that regard and its a big reason I hope that with 40K having got nearly their entire range updated, 2019 is going to be a big year for updating AoS Battletomes.

auticus wrote:
The new chaos warrior box that I bought back in the spring had them on 32s. They look ridiculously stupid next to the other ones I have that are on 25 squares, so I put them on 25 rounds instead.

Were they boxed wrong? Maybe? My original AOS starter box had everything on 25s and then the second box I saw there were 32s so that first box was boxed wrong. But I still got a box of chaos warriors they wanted me to put on 32 rounds which looked stupid.

You didn't NEED to rebase until this year. You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

You still don't NEED to rebase. Unless you are a tournament player. This was true in 2016 and 2017 as well. At least here. You had to have rounds in 2016 at competitive events in my region.

My campaigns were the only ones you didn't need to rebase on, and they took holy hell for that from a handful of the pro-circuit guys but our GW manager has let me continue with keeping the original bases on models because thats the company policy.

I dont see having to rebase my entire collection as a molehill. Its quite a bit of work. Additionally if I want to use a legacy army that are on 20mm bases you already know they'll be on the 25s and then if they pull something like the Blood Warriors on you just don't bother with your older models and buy in to the new ones to save yourself the hassle and time.

At what point were Chaos Warriors on 25mm bases? I bought mine shortly after AoS launched and they came with 32mm rounds. And if you're referring to the AoS starter with Bloodbound and Stormcast, it came with 32mm rounds for the Bloodbound (and a 60mm for the Lord of Khorne) and 40mm for the Stormcast.

*edit* I re-read your post, and now I see what you're saying. You guessed wrong on what size base the Warriors were going to be on and put them on 25mm rounds. Don't blame GW for that.