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No its not a bad joke. If a particular warzone warranted the attention of all three of these mighty heroes of the impeirum who would take overall command? The fluff for all three says how mighty and peerless strategists they are and that everyone bows to their authority, but which holds the most authority?

Either of them I'd say. They're all recognised as excellent generals and leaders, not least by each other. They're also mature enough to respect the authority of one-another, so I don't think we could reliably say who'd take overall command; moreso than other debates, this would be pure speculation.

The 13th black crusade would suggest Grimnar, but as I said I don't think anyone of them would be more likely to take overall command and it would simply vary. Nonetheless, I get the impression that Dante would be happy to relinquish the pressures of command so I'd put him 3rd despite his superior experience, leaving it between Grimnar and Calgar IMHO. Of the two, I'd suspect Calgar would take overall command as I'm not sure I could see Grimnar pushing for it quite as much.

Dante, he's not only the oldest but the commander of the best chapter

Im thinking Grimmnar,; wasn't he the joint commander of all the space marine forces in the 13 Black Crusade (excluding Dark Angels, who appointed their own general)?

Dont forget Second War of Armageddon, Marneus Calgar AND Tu'Shan of the Salamanders both ceded overall command to Dante cause of how old and experienced that badass is.
I cant see Logan willingly give up command though I could see him respect the likes of Dante enough that he may defer authority to him in the end. Although if Marneus was to take it, I cant see Logan being at all happy with that

If Ward writes it, Calgar leads and ends winning all alone on his own. trollface.jpg

Now, seriously, such ammount of badassess, I imagine them working together under no particular lead, but a council of equals.

Apparently space command is almost always ceded to Helbrect of the Templars if he is present.

I also agree that Logan would probably be more happy working under Dante than Calgar.

Marines choose their own supreme commander.
In the 13 Black Crusade they chose Grimnar.
I doubt he would be chosen by Calgar and Grimnar wouldn't serve under him so Dante would likely be chosen to appease both sides...

Calgar.

I probably think that would be the inevitable answer. He's lord master of the Ultramarines, you know, first and best? At least according to the fluff.

gpfunk wrote:Calgar.

I probably think that would be the inevitable answer. He's lord master of the Ultramarines, you know, first and best? At least according to the fluff.

According to the fluff of the Vanilla codex which is basically Matt Ward proclaiming his love for the Ultramarines...
You also have to consider you have:
1)The commander of possibly the most headstrong chapter about, and also the commander of the SM forces at the 13th Black Crusade and also has more experience than Calgar (Logan Grimnar)
2)The commander of possibly the most vicous and infamous chapter around, the second saviour of Armageddon and the oldest marine alive (Not including dreadnoughts) Dante.
Calgar is a bit outmatched here...

I think it would all depend on the foe they were facing. Dante if it was Orks, Calgar if it was Tyranids, and Grimmnar if it was Chaos. If was any other I would think it would be by popular vote of those who would fall under there command, ie the fleet, the guard generals, and the other parties involed.

Was Dante in command at both the 2nd and 3rd Armageddon wars? If so thats a precedent for both Grimnar (3rd war) and Marneus (2nd) ceding to Dante at different points.

In my opinion it would depend on weight of numbers, I mean it doesn't seem likely that one of them would be put in charge if he only had a tactical squad with him if the others had their entire chapters for instance.

Emmkay wrote:Was Dante in command at both the 2nd and 3rd Armageddon wars? If so thats a precedent for both Grimnar (3rd war) and Marneus (2nd) ceding to Dante at different points.

In my opinion it would depend on weight of numbers, I mean it doesn't seem likely that one of them would be put in charge if he only had a tactical squad with him if the others had their entire chapters for instance.

In the first war for Armageddon, Logan was the overall commander, but the SW were the only SM chapter involved.

In the second war, Dante was the overall commander of a large SM strike force, but I don't know if Calgar was present. The Ultramarines participated in this war, but they could have been led by a captain.

In the third war, I'm not sure who was the supreme commander. I think Helbrecht had the most influence. At least he commanded the SM naval forces. But Dante was not present (the BA were led by captain Tycho). Neither was Calgar. I'm not sure for Logan Grimnar, but I don't think so either.

The SW were at the 3rd war for Armageddon but Grimnar wasn't about AFAIK.
I'd say they would change it up according to what enemy they were facing, like what Colep175 said.

Colep read my mind. The foes that the force would be facing would have a strong hold on who becomes supreme commander.

What if Helbretch or Pedro Kantor or Tushan or the Imperial Fists chapter master or The Raven Guard Chapter Masters showed up all at the same campagin, who would get it?

They vote on it...
I would guess it's the one with the most experience fighting the enemy at hand or the oldest chapter.

Asherian Command wrote:What if Helbretch or Pedro Kantor or Tushan or the Imperial Fists chapter master or The Raven Guard Chapter Masters showed up all at the same campagin, who would get it?

I don't know who the current Master of the Shadows is. I have never heard of this guy. Whoever he is, he is less famous than Shrike or Korvydae, so he is out.

Vladimir Plugh didn't do much in his life either, so he is out too.

Tushan is quite a remarkable chapter master, but he is young and inexperienced (he has been leading the salamanders for roughly 70 years IIRC). In addition, the salamanders seem to have the reputation of being humble and contempt with leaving the glory to others. He would probably leave the supreme leadership to someone else (he did it twice during the two wars for Armageddon).


That leaves us between Kantor and Helbrecht. I would vote for Helbrecht, because he seems to be the most renowned of the two, and has already led a coalition of SM forces in the past.

Laodamia wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:What if Helbretch or Pedro Kantor or Tushan or the Imperial Fists chapter master or The Raven Guard Chapter Masters showed up all at the same campagin, who would get it?

I don't know who the current Master of the Shadows is. I have never heard of this guy. Whoever he is, he is less famous than Shrike or Korvydae, so he is out.

Vladimir Plugh didn't do much in his life either, so he is out too.

Tushan is quite a remarkable chapter master, but he is young and inexperienced (he has been leading the salamanders for roughly 70 years IIRC). In addition, the salamanders seem to have the reputation of being humble and contempt with leaving the glory to others. He would probably leave the supreme leadership to someone else (he did it twice during the two wars for Armageddon).


That leaves us between Kantor and Helbrecht. I would vote for Helbrecht, because he seems to be the most renowned of the two, and has already led a coalition of SM forces in the past.

Really Vladimir Plugh if it was a defensive action the Imperial fists would probably be picked, offensive probably the Black Templars, Blood angels or Space Wolves.
See i have my opinion. I bet the Raven Guard would send their forces to do assualts on the enemys supply lines and take out primary leaders and such.

I don't know if it's relevant with big name chapter masters (or even with joint task forces) but the rule* is when 2 or more marines hold the same rank command goes to the oldest.
Therefore Dante takes command... probably

*according to Savage Scars.

Ronin wrote:Dont forget Second War of Armageddon, Marneus Calgar AND Tu'Shan of the Salamanders both ceded overall command to Dante cause of how old and experienced that badass is.
I cant see Logan willingly give up command though I could see him respect the likes of Dante enough that he may defer authority to him in the end. Although if Marneus was to take it, I cant see Logan being at all happy with that

Which was really funny since in 2n edition (when they wrote that fluff) Dante had a lower strategy rating than Marneus.

I miss strategy ratings. I wonder if they'll come back for 6th?

Laodamia wrote:In the third war, I'm not sure who was the supreme commander. I think Helbrecht had the most influence. At least he commanded the SM naval forces. But Dante was not present (the BA were led by captain Tycho). Neither was Calgar. I'm not sure for Logan Grimnar, but I don't think so either.

Tu'shan was at the 3rd Armageddon war, but he was too busy destroying Ork Roks, protecting civilians and generally being a hero to bother with trying to argue with other commanders.

I'd say Calgar because apparently Dante forgot how awesome powerfists are. Good thing Calgar brought 2.

Surtur wrote:I'd say Calgar because apparently Dante forgot how awesome powerfists are. Good thing Calgar brought 2.

Dante doesnt need powerfists because he's already awesome. Calgar can keep his powerfists.

Dante would most likely be put in charge. He is the Oldest and most experienced of the three. He was a Chapter Master before either one of them was even born if I remember correctly.

Tell me this is not awe inspiring.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dante

Also, Grimmnar and Calgar would not work well under each others respective commands.

I see Grimmnar being a more "Fine, you're in charge, tell me where you want me, what you want killing and leave the how if it up to me."

Between the three of them, Dante wins out on seniority (which is really what makes that decision happen).

The only Chapter/Legion known to violate that rule is the Dark Angels and their subsidiaries. They refuse to be commanded by anyone else.

DarknessEternal wrote:Between the three of them, Dante wins out on seniority (which is really what makes that decision happen).

The only Chapter/Legion known to violate that rule is the Dark Angels and their subsidiaries. They refuse to be commanded by anyone else.

It isn't a rule though...
No chapter is commanded by another chapter. The supreme commander of an SM force is there to co-ordinate the force more than anything. A chapter that doesn't agree is either disruptive anyway or overly independent and blind to the fact that it is the best idea to have 1 overall commander.

purplefood wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:Between the three of them, Dante wins out on seniority (which is really what makes that decision happen).

The only Chapter/Legion known to violate that rule is the Dark Angels and their subsidiaries. They refuse to be commanded by anyone else.

It isn't a rule though...
No chapter is commanded by another chapter. The supreme commander of an SM force is there to co-ordinate the force more than anything. A chapter that doesn't agree is either disruptive anyway or overly independent and blind to the fact that it is the best idea to have 1 overall commander.

I agree.

A Supreme Commander will not directly tell the other chapters what to do.

He would rather prevent two chapters from chasing the same enemy, make sure that the SM forces are efficiently spread over the war zones, etc.

It's also likely that in a large conflict the Supreme Commander will liase with the IG/whoever else commander to make sure they are hitting what needs to be hit.