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Howdy! My local gaming shop has an all-comers 1000pt tournament every Saturday night, and I'd like to get some critique on an army list I'm thinking about bringing.
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HQ
Farseer- 145
-Fortune, Doom, Runes of Warding

Troops
Guardians- 143
-Brightlance, Warlock with spear and Embolden

Guardians- 138
-Starcannon, Warlock with spear and Embolden

Dire Avengers- 162
-Power Weapon/Shimmershield, Bladestorm
Wave Serpent- 140
-Starcannon, Star Engines

Heavy Support
Fire Prism- 150
-Holofields

War Walker Squadron (2 walkers)- 120
-Scatter Lasers
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Thanks for the feedback!

OK, first of all, any time you feel like taking a starcannon, take a scatter laser instead. Cheaper, and better against the vast majority of targets. I also wouldn't take a bright lance on the guardians, it is super expensive for 1 BS3 shot. Missile launcher would be better - remember that bright lances are only really better against AV13+, and if a land raider or such turns up, what are you going to do, plug away at it with that 1 gun in the hopes of a lucky result?

I assume the farseer is going with the dire avengers? I think guide/doom would be better than fortune, and dual catapults would be better than shimmershield on the exarch.

I'm not a big fan of the guardians in general, they're bloody expensive for single heavy weapons in cover, the men themselves are pretty feeble. I'd prefer mechanised units.

OR, a simple change to the list would be to take out the dire avengers unit completely. Switch them for 5 fire dragons in the wave serpent. (which could just have shuriken cannons and no star engines). That would cost 180 pts as opposed to 302. Then you could afford to take an Avatar, if you have one. Run him, the farseer and the guardians in a body, using the farseer to fortune the avatar (who could afford to drop doom and the spirit stones).

That plan would give you a better way to take out heavy armour, and a really formidable unit at this points level (a fortuned avatar is rock-hard, and lots of opponents will find themselves with useless melta weapons against it).

But the main point with the list, which I would fix under any circumstances, is less starcannons and more scatter lasers.

Excellent advice, and I can definitely see your point on your argument on scatter lasers. I also see your point for replacing the Brightlance with a Missile Launcher, as it is cheaper, has longer range, and doubles their role for vehicle/blast templates. The Brightlance guardian squad would probably have more of a place in a larger point list in combination with other anti-vehicle options.

The plan was to have the farseer accompany the Dire Avengers in the Wave Serpent. I also agree with your guide/doom seer idea in combination with the "gun-zarch"

I've always been a fan of the idea of fire dragons in the wave serpent, and should be picking up a squad soon from a friend. I only own 1 Wave Serpent currently however, so if I use them that will require my troops to be on foot. I do like the idea of the Avatar leading the two fearless squads of guardians, and that was an idea that originally crossed my mind. I went with the list I have posted however because I felt the need for a mobile troop unit. It definitely looks promising though, and I'll give it a try. If I were to add the Avatar, would that allow me to remove the warlocks accompanying the guardians and use the points somewhere else?

One last question, is two long-ranged troop units sufficient for a 1000pt battle?

And thank you very much for the feedback!

No problem man.

I think your long-ranged troops are plenty - most eldar fire support should come from the heavy support section to be honest, guardians aren't that good for pure firepower.

In a small game like this I would think you are better off going for an avatar and as many guardians as possible over 1 rather lonely wave serpent unit. Bladestorming dire avengers are pretty good, but I dunno if it is worth investing so much in them when the rest of the army is infantry.

Do you have any more war walkers? They are definitely the stand-out unit for eldar in small games, and go great with a farseer casting guide.

Based on the feedback, how does this list look?

HQ
Farseer- 100
-Fortune, Runes of Warding

Avatar- 155

Elites
Fire Dragons(x5)- 80
-Wave Serpent- 115
-Scatter Lasers

Troops
Guardians- 133
-Missile Launcher, Warlock with Embolden and spear

Guardians- 138
-Scatter Laser, Warlock with Conceal and spear

Heavy Support
Fire Prism- 150
-Holofields

War Walker Squadron(2 walkers)- 120
-Scatter Lasers



This list incorporates the idea of a fortuned avatar, accompanied by a concealed guardian squad with the Farseer. The other guardian squad could effectively be ignored by unobserving players because of the small threat they pose compared to other models like the Avatar and Fire Prism. This allows them to sit back and plink away at enemy armor and drop blast templates. Biggest differences from my original list are the lack of a mobile troop, the incorporation of scatter lasers, and the inclusion of dependable anti-armor with the fire dragons, as well as a rock hard close combat monster. The Avatar will serve as a fire-magnet, as well as the much needed CC support for the weak guardians.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
And yes, I have 1 more walker model, allowing me to take a full squadron if need be. I also have enough heavy weapon bits to run whatever setup.

Wicked man. Just fortune that avatar and push him forward every turn, and you should do fine - use your firepower to take down stuff that can threaten him or tie him up, blitz any heavy armour with the fire dragons. Watch out for psychic hoods. A lone fire prism is slightly worse than more war walkers, but it is still good firepower, gives you some AP2.

Cool deal, I'll play around with it and then do some test games. Thanks for the support!

Whenever toying with lists like this, I immediately compare it to a full mech list and say "how does this compare?" in the same points bracket. The 1000 mech list looks like:

Farseer, warding, doom 95

5 avengers, TL EML serpent 180
5 avengers, TL EML serpent 180
5 avengers, TL EML serpent 180

5 fire dragons, TL cannon serpent 180
5 fire dragons, TL cannon serpent 180

Total 995

Then I say... the mech list has 3 scoring troops, 3 EML shots and the dragon wagons. Dragons are so cheap for what they bring, so in low point games they are even good as a mainstay unit. Dare I say this list would be improved by swapping an avenger squad for a third dragon squad, too.

Back on track, given it deploys as 5 wave serpents, its a tough nut to crack for any alpha strikes. Secondly, it has good range and speed, but not a lot of actual shots. Third, its dragons bring a lot of anti armor in turn 2-3, almost anywhere on the map. So how does your list compare?

Well, it has fewer troops, with less speed and survivability. We'll take it on the chin and keep going, its not the end of the world. The war walkers bring massive firepower, and the prism threatens tanks/TEQs from across the table, so this list massively outdoes the mech standard in 24-48" play, minus speed.

Getting a fortuned avatar in a 1000 point list is scary, but at 255 points between them, your HQ is officially a death star at 25% of your army. If the avatar doesn't perform, then your army won't, so getting him into assault is absolutely key.

I don't know what tourney you're entering, and if they adhere to WYSIWYG strictly, but I'd take storm guardians in this list, at least for the advancing squad. Losing the heavy weapon isn't a big deal, but getting flamers and 2 attacks each in assault is, especially with an avatar around. Because of the fearless bubble, you can safely take enhance or destructor on the storm guardians, and if you get free points, throw in some more bodies for 8 points a piece. Especially with enhance, in a battle this sized with an avatar, you can force a lot of wounds if you assault with both.

I'd drop the single prism. Either make it a night spinner, or get more war walkers. Walkers are a massive stand-out in small games, where opponents don't have quite so many vendettas, and they can outflank for some real hurty surprise action. Night spinners are far, far better than single prisms, and comparable to linked prisms. In my jetbike list, I switched to dual spinners over dual prisms and have never looked back.

List looks pretty good, but I think there are a few tuning options in there. Unfortunately, those tuning options are going to need more models, and I don't know if that's an option.

I agree with your points on comparing the two army styles, and I like the idea of the storm guardians. I am not entirely sure how WYSIWYG the tournaments are, but from what I've heard they're pretty lax. I prefer to only bring units I have models for anyway, so neither Storm Guardians or 5 Wave Serpents are an option...yet. I can however run the Night Spinner, as I bought the new Prism Model a few days back. I'll keep the other options in mind for the future though, thanks!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just a bit o' followup, I played a small game vs. Space Wolves with a friend at 750 points this evening, using everything in the list but the Wave Serpent, Fire Dragons, and 1 of the 3 walkers. I filled the rest of the points with 3 more guardians. As he won turn 1, and it was on a smaller table, I went with the reserves approach. In short, Walkers popped a tank that exploded and killed 4 space marines, the rest were shot down by the prism and subsequent turns of walker fire. The avatar got into close combat with the other tactical squad and rune priest, took them out over the course of the game while only loosing one wound. One of my guardian squads was assaulted by scouts, and was wiped out. The scouts were held in CC however due to the Farseer being fearless from the Avatar. The other guardians came to the rescue, and wiped out the remaining few. Farseer consolidated toward his whirlwind, and punched it to death. Game went all 7 turns, and ended with complete annihilation of the Space Wolves with the Avatar running up and slicing the final remaining Rhino in half.

Very good game for the eldar, as my casualties at the end were losing a full guardian squad, 4 guardians remaining in the second squad, one of the two Walkers wrecked, and 3 wounds remaining on the Avatar. I realize that a lot of the battle results were due to decent reserves rolls (except the fire prism, which didn't come in until turn 4, and by that time only had 2 marines not locked in CC to shoot), playing on a slightly smaller table, and him taking a center-of-the-table formation allowing my Avatar to only have to take one round of shooting before getting into CC. Overall, it looks like a promising list however, and I'll resort to running it as it is while tweaking it as I pick up more models. Thanks for the contributions of both of you!